“In God We Trust” on the money (actually it is, by an official Act of Congress, the National Motto of the United States) isn’t the most pressing issue in separation of church and state or civil rights for non-believers.
Nonetheless, it is insulting to Americans who are atheists. It’s a lie–not all Americans do trust trust in God, and of course the great lie and great insult lurks that non-believers are not (contrary to the Constitution) real Americans. It hasn’t really been there forever, either–the phrase appeared off and on on coins since the Civil War, but it was not officially mandated to be our “National Motto” and to appear on all currency until the 1950s (a period in which politicians routinely would publicly say breathtakingly bigoted things about atheists–the Commies were atheists you see, which means that by the Transobfuscatory Axiom atheists are therefore Commies, and hence Un-American). And on the “give 'em and inch and they’ll take a mile” principle, people really do sometimes say “Well, if this ain’t a Christian nation–if atheists are real Americans–how come it says ‘In God We Trust’ on all the money?”
I agree, I am not threatened by the motto being on my bills. What bugs me is listening to people describe customs or actions as sacred parts of our nation character that founding fathers fully intended and harmless to one and all when in fact they were put in place in living memory specifically to demonize and marginalize atheists such as myself. That fact that it no longer has that effect is not a good excuse. Would it be appropriate to have a “No Coloreds” sign by the front entrance of the court house, even if there is no longer a rule banning blacks? After all, the founding fathers had no problem with it.
Certainly the “Red Scare” was an issue, and who knows if something like it could rear its ugly head again, but I do not see “IGWT” as a remotely significant factor in driving such blind hatred.
That politicians were willing to jump on a bandwagon and wave the flag and God is hardly surprising but this particular piece on our money is small potatoes in the scheme of separation of church and state.
Again I reiterate I think it should be gone…but of all the things I want to fuss about it is low on the totem pole.
If I remember right, the U.S. Army uses an atom symbol as the atheist symbol on gravestones. Not that fantastic a symbol of atheism, but oh well. I suppose the problem is the level of looking at it; after all, atheism is comparable not to Christianity, Judaism etc. but to theism, which doesn’t have a symbol either. It’d be better to have a symbol to humanism , utilitarianism etc… Also easier. Or you could just have a distinctly empty plaque.
It may not be the biggest issue facing us, but all these little digs add up. There’s no purpose for having “In God We Trust” as our national motto. Whether you believe or not, it’s got nothing to do with democracy, which is the real point of America. Sneaky religious stuff…that’s what it is. It’s subtle brainwashing that makes some people think god has something to do with democracy.
The “IGWT” on our money allowed because it’s “ceremonial deism,” which doesn’t really talk about any actual god, but it’s just a traditional decoration. Yes, that’s a lie, but it’s basically why it’s allowed to stay there.
It just is one more little dig at us atheists - the motto refers to a god not because it’s really god, but because it’s just idiomatic. Then people tell us that the US is a Christian nation because it says “IGWT” on our money. I wish they’d all get together and make up their minds.
So what do you support, democracy or our Constitution? The Constitution was written in a way that democracy is strictly limited, but you seem here to be advocating unfettered democracy.
I hadn’t thought about Darwin on the money before. I can honestly say, I never heard anyone complain about it, and I hung around with some people who were pretty close to fundamentalism. I am sure there are creationists in the UK, I just don’t think I met one in 25 years.
But I would agree - aside from the illogicality of the arguments involved, ceremonial deism doesn’t bother me anywhere nearly as much as the other stuff.
Bloody typical. I always complained I didn’t have enough of the pictures of any of the people. They could have put that witch Thatcher on a note and I would have wanted more of them.
Don’t atheists realize just how silly and malicious they sound when they drag the Inquisition into every conversation about religion? Compared to the evils of secularist ideocracies, from the French revolution to the killing fields of Cambodia, the wrongdoings of the Christians fade almost into insignficance.
Seriously? The best defense you can come up with is, “Someone was even more evil this one time!”
If the cops kick down your door and find a dozen Girl Scouts rotting in your basement are you gonna tell them, “Well Hitler killed millions of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and disabled!”
This has been brought up before and it makes no sense. Atheism is not an ideology, just a description for not having one specific type of ideology (religion, theism or belief in god). If I was making claims about how bad the Nazis were would it make sense to defend them by pointing out what a bastard Ghengis Khan was? There are many ideologies that have have nothing to do with God. Some are even held by people who believe in God. The French revolution was not an attempt to spread atheism, nor were the atrocities of Pol Pot. They were both in support of specific ideologies.
The ideology of the United State of America is laid out in the U.S. Constitution, not the Bible or the Koran, or Atlas Shrugged for that matter. The government should stick to that and let religious groups speak for themselves.
Jonathan
PS. One thing that people tend to forget was that one of the reasons that the founding fathers wanted to keep church and state separate was to protect the churches from the state. If your church became the official church of the United States, does the President get to decide who gets to be in the clergy?
I’ve had good friends and family claim “this country was founded on Christian principles” as if Christianity had dibbs on America. They missed the point of the constitution. I always ask. ?“What principles do you think are uniquely Christian?”
There may be doctrines that are Christian but I can’t think of any principles that don’t exist seperately from Christianity.
As someone noted above trying to remove it could spur such a backlash that you might actually get Amendments passed that allow that and worse (witness the backlash in just California when they ruled the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional because it says “under God”).
And I support keeping it there? Where did I say that? In the bit you quoted I said it thought it should be gone. I just think my energies in this regard are more profitably spent elsewhere is all.
