# The Cosmos: Created , not by chance. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2000, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133 "2000-04-19T16:46:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/286 "2000-04-24T18:06:00Z")
I tried to talk to Paeshrus on AIM (he is listed as P Ashley if you want to say, “Hi!”) and he didn’t want to talk to me off the board. As such, I put my reply here, even though it is off-topic: > [@](#): > > Originally posted by paeshrus: > > **No, I asked you what _organized religion_ you might be long to.** Well, let’s see here… First of all, UU has been around for hundreds of years, and has three million plus members. If you do not know of the church, I would say this is due to your own ignorance. If you would like to know more about the church and it’s history, I have some links I could provide. If this is a dig at the church, I respond with the following: When the Protestants were breaking free from the Catholic church, the RCC was against it because they thought it would just lead to a splintering of the Gospel which would continue to create divisions. The result is over 20,000 Protestant denominations in that time. I would sumbit, then, that your churches and idealology are lacking the organization, not the UU’s, who in fact were once two churches who saw that they had much in common and GOT TOGETHER AS ONE CHURCH. Let’s see all of the different Christian denominations “organize” that way… :rolleyes: Also, I responded to a slew of your questions, and this is all you can come back with? Am I to assume that you wanted to know the answers? That you totally agree with them? I’ll never know, I guess. Note to David B and/or Gaudere: As Paeshrus made obvious, Everest is a sock puppet for him. (Something that I predicted a few pages back, but I digress), and as such, this poster is breaking rules. At the least, I expect one of his identities to be taken away. * * * Yer pal, Satan [http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif](http://www.raleighmusic.com/board/Images/devil.gif) _I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Two weeks, one day, 16 hours, 6 minutes and 22 seconds. 626 cigarettes not smoked, saving $78.35. Life saved: 2 days, 4 hours, 10 minutes._ ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/287 "2000-04-24T19:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by neuro-trash grrrl: > \*\*I’d like to ask a question, if I may. What exactly is your motivation here, > [additional deletia] > Unless you were just looking for a pulpit, in which case I have no further time for this. > \*\* Beautiful! I wish I’d said that! And your .sig is hilarious, too. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/288 "2000-04-24T19:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by neuro-trash grrrl: > \*\*I’d like to ask a question, if I may. What exactly is your motivation here, > [additional deletia] > Unless you were just looking for a pulpit, in which case I have no further time for this. > \*\* Beautiful! I wish I’d said that! And your .sig is hilarious, too. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/289 "2000-04-24T19:35:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by neuro-trash grrrl: > \*\*I’d like to ask a question, if I may. What exactly is your motivation here, > [additional deletia] > Unless you were just looking for a pulpit, in which case I have no further time for this. > \*\* Beautiful! I wish I’d said all that (although I trimmed some for tidiness)! And your .sig is hilarious, too. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/290 "2000-04-24T19:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by neuro-trash grrrl: > \*\*I’d like to ask a question, if I may. What exactly is your motivation here, > [additional deletia] > Unless you were just looking for a pulpit, in which case I have no further time for this. > \*\* Beautiful! I wish I’d said all that (although I trimmed some for tidiness)! And your .sig is hilarious, too. * * * On On ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/291 "2000-04-24T19:42:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by neuro-trash grrrl: > \*\*I’d like to ask a question, if I may. What exactly is your motivation here, > [additional deletia] > Unless you were just looking for a pulpit, in which case I have no further time for this. > \*\* Beautiful! I wish I’d said all that (although I trimmed some for tidiness)! And your .sig is hilarious, too. * * * On On ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/292 "2000-04-24T19:48:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by neuro-trash grrrl: > \*\*I’d like to ask a question, if I may. What exactly is your motivation here, > [additional deletia] > Unless you were just looking for a pulpit, in which case I have no further time for this. > \*\* Beautiful! I wish I’d said all that (although I trimmed some for tidiness)! And your .sig is hilarious, too. * * * On On ---
**Author:** ![CalifBoomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CalifBoomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalifBoomer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/293 "2000-04-24T22:27:00Z")
**Wallym7** said: > [@](#): > > I know I shouldn’t feed the troll, but get a load of this: and: > [@](#): > > The sheer force of this moronic statement compelled me to remark on it. **David B: (who should know better)** said: > [@](#): > > CalifLiar said: and: > [@](#): > > And you wonder why I’ve branded you a liar? and: > [@](#): > > Liar and > [@](#): > > Oh, and people who lie through their teeth at every opportunity. and: > [@](#): > > Jeez, please don’t feed the trolls, man! I have enough problems with Paeshrus (love that one) and CalifLiar claiming I’m an “anti-theist”! **Excuse me??! Is this the Pit??** It was my _understanding_ that these sorts of **personal attacks** were not **appropriate** in any other forum, and certainly not in GB from a **moderator.** David: Everyone is not going to agree with you all the time. Please conduct yourself appropriately in this forum, or take it to the Pit. Thank you. :: ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/294 "2000-04-24T22:59:00Z")
How ironic… CB,_The Repentant Pitbull_, trying to give lessons on posting etiquette. As if. Try living the example first. Maybe then you can have enough credibility to critique others. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/295 "2000-04-24T23:05:00Z")
Boomer: I think the point is that people have made it **repeatedly** clear to you that not only did men not evolve from apes, but that no reputable evolutionist is claiming that they did. To continue to construct this straw man of science in order to further your particular religious views is at best persistently ignorant and at worst trollish. Can you maybe see, then, why people get a little testy the umpteenth time you make a demonstrably false characterization? ---
**Author:** ![CalifBoomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CalifBoomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalifBoomer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/296 "2000-04-24T23:06:00Z")
hardcore: > [@](#): > > How ironic… CB,The Repentant Pitbull, trying to give lessons on posting etiquette. > As if. > > Try living the example first. Maybe then you can have enough credibility to critique others. Are you suggesting that some are subject to the rules, but others are not? If so, what is your basis for such a determination, other than **situational ethics or moral relativism?** :: ---
**Author:** ![CalifBoomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CalifBoomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalifBoomer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/297 "2000-04-24T23:11:00Z")
Gaudere: > [@](#): > > I think the point is that people have made it repeatedly clear to you that not only did men not evolve from apes, but that no reputable evolutionist is claiming that they did. This is what I’ve been saying all along. :: ---
**Author:** ![CalifBoomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CalifBoomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalifBoomer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/298 "2000-04-24T23:18:00Z")
Gaudere: > [@](#): > > To continue to construct this straw man of science in order to further your particular religious views is at best persistently ignorant and at worst trollish. Can you maybe see, then, why people get a little testy the umpteenth time you make a demonstrably false characterization? OK. I think you answered my question to hardcore. The rules are to be applied **arbitrarily** and according to the general consensus of opinion. Thank you. I understand. :: ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/299 "2000-04-24T23:21:00Z")
No, CB, what I am trying to say is that you should conduct yourself as the AntiTroll for a significant period of time first, then perhaps you might have the moral authority to chastize others. Doing so now just makes you look foolish. ---
**Author:** ![CalifBoomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CalifBoomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalifBoomer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/300 "2000-04-24T23:28:00Z")
Now I am confused again. hardcore determines what is moral??? :: ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/301 "2000-04-24T23:32:00Z")
CB: Do you intend to respond to my last post to you? ---
**Author:** ![CalifBoomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CalifBoomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalifBoomer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/302 "2000-04-24T23:41:00Z")
Scylla: I am not prepared to concede that everything created itself out of nothing, Higgs field notwithstanding. :: ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/303 "2000-04-24T23:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by CalifBoomer: > This is what I’ve been saying all along. First, don’t flatter me. I’m Gadarene, not Gaudere. (Although someday, the IPU willing, I could make myself worthy of the comparison…) Second…huh? **What** is what you’ve been saying all along, exactly? This is the quote remarked upon by WallyM7: > [@](#): > > Oh wait, we’re only descended from apes. He called it a “moronic statement” because you were using it, as you’ve used it before, in a sarcastic manner–as a characterization of ‘strange things evolutionists believe.’ It’s been pointed out to you that this is _not_ what evolutionists believe, yet you persist in making the characterization. Now how does my quote that > [@](#): > > To continue to construct this straw man of science in order to further your particular religious views is at best persistently ignorant and at worst trollish. Can you maybe see, then, why people get a little testy the umpteenth time you make a demonstrably false characterization? denote that rules are arbitrarily applied? Look, _consensus of opinion_ says you shouldn’t say things you know to be false. _Consensus of opinion_ says you shouldn’t ascribe false opinions to people to make a rhetorical point. _Consensus of opinion_ says that when you’re told again and again that evolutionary theory does **not** hold men to be descended from apes, you should maybe stop building the same tired straw man every time. In essence, _consensus of opinion_ says we should be fighting ignorance here, not perpetuating it. And this is arbitrary how, exactly? And this is morally relativistic how, exactly? And–really, Boomer–this is unfair to you how, exactly?? ---
**Author:** ![Dumb\_Ox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dumb\_Ox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumb_Ox)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/304 "2000-04-24T23:51:00Z")
Let me see if I’ve learned anything from my 75 years reading this thread. **pashley** , **CalifBoomer** , what’s your opinion of this argument: 1. Whatever begins to exist, has a cause for it’s coming into being (something cannot spontaneously come to be without a causing agent). 2)The cosmos began to exist. 3)Therefore, the universe has a cause for its coming into being. (The Higgs field) Is this sound? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2000, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133/305 "2000-04-24T23:52:00Z")
CB: No, the one after that where you misquoted me on Abiogenesis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-created-not-by-chance/18133.md?page=16)