# The Cosmos is All. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582 "2019-03-05T17:45:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/41 "2019-03-06T08:59:00Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > You used the term “space people” in your OP. > And, I am female. Goodbye, I’m outta here. Hi there Beckda … I am or I try to be gender conscious which is why I said “space people” and not spacemen. I am pleased you are a female. Adios Amigo. ---
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/42 "2019-03-06T09:06:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I can’t believe you missed the actual UFO Biblical reference, in [Ezekiel](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+1%3A1-48%3A22&version=MSG) Those dudes must have had some awesome 'shrooms. > > But since Israel didn’t have any mountains for the gods to hide out on, not surprising they used the sky. No aliens needed. If aliens did come down, you’d think the least they could do was teach some decent cosmology. Howzit Voyager. Yeah I am aware of the Ezekiel scene in the bible. They did have access to Mount Sinai in Egypt though where Moses probably met an alien. ---
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/43 "2019-03-06T09:38:31Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > **Jaimiedarke** , a few suggestions: > > 1. Read a whole lot of posts in each board so you get familiar with what types of threads are in each. Something you don’t want to debate but merely want to expound upon would go in In My Humble Opinion, for instance. > > 2. People posting in Great Debates usually demand cites for assertions presented as fact. > > 3. Those cites should be generally recognized as credible and reliable and from generally recognized authorities. If, for instance, I were to say something like “The moon could easily be colonized,” and my cite is Gwyneth Paltrow, I should expect to be called out on it, as Paltrow is no expert and, in fact, is regarded as a bit flakey. It doesn’t matter if _I_ think she’s an expert on colonization (which I don’t); she’s not generally recognized as one. > > 4. You might want to hold back on the biting comments aimed at other posters. You managed to alienate **Beckdawrek** , who welcomed you and is one of the nicest people on these boards. Not good. Hi NellieB … I hear what you say and thank you for your advice. However as this is Great Debates I want to differ with some of your views. 1. When I posted this thread it was with the intention that it should be debated. I do not believe that I have “simply expounded …” as you put it. 2. I am sure will agree that when debating whether aliens exist or not, cites in this regard are rather difficult to come by. Having said this it does not mean the subject cannot be debated. 3. Much greater minds than Ms Paltrows have in one way or another said that there is a case for the existence of alien life forms. Among them Stephen Hawking & Carl Sagan. 4. Whilst I cannot agree that I have made “biting comments aimed at other posters” I did commit a terrible\* faux pas\* by referring to Beck as “bro.” I have since apologised to the lady in question and my apology has been accepted. Thank you for pointing out my mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/44 "2019-03-06T11:09:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > [Funding cuts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria), mostly. > > But it is very unlikely that any major body of knowledge represented in the Library really vanished without a trace. We still possess thousands of ancient works from almost all literate civilizations in that period of history: the notion that “all the world’s history and knowledge” from those times was “lost” is sheer nonsense. And it’s equally absurd to suggest that all the ancient works with references to alien visitors somehow coincidentally disappeared and no extant works ever mentioned them. > > There are no surviving ancient texts with descriptions of alien visitations because there never were any ancient texts with descriptions of alien visitations, because there never were any ancient alien visitations. That is by far the simplest and most probable explanation. However: the Roman historian Aulus Gellius wrote (about 200 years after the fact) “an enormous quantity of books, nearly seven hundred thousand volumes, was either acquired or written in Egypt under the kings known as Ptolemies; but these were all burned during the sack of the city in our first war with Alexandria, not intentionally or by anyone’s order, but accidentally by the auxiliary soldiers.” and when the enemy endeavored to cut off his communication by sea, he was forced to divert that danger by setting fire to his own ships, which, after burning the docks, thence spread on and destroyed the great library. — Plutarch,Life of Caesar[4] also However, the editor of Plutarch’s translation notes that the “destruction of the Library can have been only partial”, and that it occurred specifically in the Museum built by Ptolemy.[4] In the 2nd century AD, the Roman historianAulus Gelliuswrote in his bookAttic Nightsthat the Library was burned by mistake after the siege when some of Caesar’sauxiliarysoldiers started a fire. Aulus’s translator similarly notes that, although auxiliary forces accidentally burned many books while stationed in Alexandria: “By no means all of the Alexandrian Library was destroyed [in 48 BC] and the losses were made good, at least in part, by Antony in 41 B.C. A part of the library was burned under Aurelian, in A.D. 272, and the destruction seems to have been completed in 391.”[5] In conclusion: Perhaps there were many, many, many mentions of alien visitation but at the time any such “visitation” might perhaps have been referred to as a visitation of “gods.” ---
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/45 "2019-03-06T11:17:15Z")
“… this fantastical take” … rambling" … OK. ---
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/46 "2019-03-06T11:23:37Z")
… or maybe Graphene or better still Carbyne which is believed to be 40 times the tensile strength of diamond and twice as strong as Graphene. ---
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/47 "2019-03-06T11:27:45Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > **Jamiedarke** , a question if I may. > > Why haven’t they come back? > > I don’t mean only appearing as blurs in grainy photographs or indistinct cell phone shots. I don’t mean the occasional person who gets abducted and probed. I mean the aliens who built the world’s civilizations. Why haven’t they come back to see how it’s worked out? Why haven’t they come back to New York or Moscow or Cairo at high noon and announce to the entire world, “You’ve done pretty well with the technology, but you’re really screwing up the environment, so focus on solar,” or something like that? > > Are these aliens who turned a species of upright apes into Homo sapiens, who either built or taught us to build the Pyramids, Teotihuacán, Easter Island and other landmarks so remarkably uninterested in their legacy and so remarkably jaded that they don’t want to check up and/or brag? Or perhaps this … Stephen Hawking, said “ … to my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational. We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.” Scary. ---
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/48 "2019-03-06T11:29:31Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > I think the biggest sign of intelligent life in the universe is they are smart enough (so far anyways) to avoid this dive of a planet and the monkeys (hairless or not) that inhabit it That’s a good point 😃 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/49 "2019-03-06T11:51:14Z")
As other posters have said: - yes, there are a truly vast number of Galaxies and stars (therefore probably planets too) - however space is also truly vast and planets light-years away are unreachable by any technology we know (since matter can’t travel faster than light) - therefore it is reasonable that there are aliens somewhere, but **not** that they have visited us. Also there is **no evidence** of any alien visitation. Using ancient texts, one can come up with anything - but that is not evidence. I believe in an invisible force that our planet permanently exerts on us. I believe in invisible waves that can heat food. I believe that scientists can predict eclipses way in advance. Show me the evidence and I’ll believe in aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/50 "2019-03-06T12:34:20Z")
> [@glee](#): > > As other posters have said: > > - yes, there are a truly vast number of Galaxies and stars (therefore probably planets too) > - however space is also truly vast and planets light-years away are unreachable by any technology we know (since matter can’t travel faster than light) > - therefore it is reasonable that there are aliens somewhere, but **not** that they have visited us. Indeed, this is the bit that believers in alien visitation tend to skip over. Yes, the odds are good that there is life on other planets - maybe many other planets. But those planets are very, very, very far away. Once you have to factor in FTL travel for the theory to work, the probability of visitation plummets dramatically. > [@](#): > > Also there is **no evidence** of any alien visitation. > Using ancient texts, one can come up with anything - but that is not evidence. > > I believe in an invisible force that our planet permanently exerts on us. > I believe in invisible waves that can heat food. > I believe that scientists can predict eclipses way in advance. > > Show me the evidence and I’ll believe in aliens. It’s funny how modern reports have suddenly fallen away as well. [I wonder why](https://xkcd.com/1235/). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/51 "2019-03-06T13:22:59Z")
1. There is a world of difference between “habitable” and “inhabited”. 2. If all those “witnesses” are to be believed, we haven’t just been visited by aliens-we have been visit by _thousands_ of different types of aliens. 3. What is the _best_ evidence you’ve got that aliens have visited us? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/52 "2019-03-06T13:37:58Z")
> [@Jamiedarke](#): > > Good point citizen. Now how do I get out of this one? Hmmmmmm??? > > Oh I know! I meant that the fiction part was the dude in the bible going up to heaven in a “chariot.” > > (Note to self. "Gotta be more careful in future cos citizen Manson is wide awake.) > > Happy trails man. I see. So you are able to determine which parts of the Bible are fiction, and which are not fiction? What other parts are not fiction, and how do you know? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/53 "2019-03-06T13:42:40Z")
> [@Jamiedarke](#): > > Jeeze Shodan don’t come down so hard on trailer park folk. Maybe due to their circumstances trailer residents don’t go out as much as others do. > > Now don’t you feel left out … I could easily have ignored your post. I didn’t. > > Hope you feel “in” now. > > Do have a splendid day! This constant condescension in lieu of actual evidence-Has this approach ever won over any converts in the past? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/54 "2019-03-06T16:50:31Z")
> [@Jamiedarke](#): > > … or maybe Graphene or better still Carbyne which is believed to be 40 times the tensile strength of diamond and twice as strong as Graphene. If Carbyne exists at all, which is still in dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Jamiedarke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@Jamiedarke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamiedarke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/55 "2019-03-06T17:01:17Z")
Okay Guys … By force of numbers the members who believe that I have posted a load of bullschtein have won this debate. (Are there no members who believe?) So I cry "uncle’ … wonder how many kids today have heard this expression? I concede … I give in … I say let us close this thread. Its run its course. All in favor say “aye.” Jamie Darle: “Aye!” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/56 "2019-03-06T17:07:41Z")
> [@Jamiedarke](#): > > Okay Guys … By force of numbers the members who believe that I have posted a load of bullschtein have won this debate. (Are there no members who believe?) > > So I cry "uncle’ … wonder how many kids today have heard this expression? > > I concede … I give in … I say let us close this thread. Its run its course. > > All in favor say “aye.” > > Jamie Darle: “Aye!” Hit the red triangle in the top corner of your post, then send a message that you started the thread, but may it please be closed now. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/57 "2019-03-06T17:31:24Z")
> [@Jamiedarke](#): > > Okay Guys … By force of numbers the members who believe that I have posted a load of bullschtein have won this debate. (Are there no members who believe?) > > So I cry "uncle’ … wonder how many kids today have heard this expression? > > I concede … I give in … I say let us close this thread. Its run its course. > > All in favor say “aye.” > > Jamie Darle: “Aye!” We haven’t “won the debate” because there’s more of us. To the extent the debate has been “won”, it’s because your argument is highly speculative, is ill-supported by either evidence or basic probability, and contains several verifiable inaccuracies. If you want to “win” next time, bring a better argument. Also, if you’re grumpy just because we’re arguing with you, I assure you that we can argue about _anything_ here. You’re welcome to stay, but if you do you might want to get used to it. It’s not just us picking on you; we do it to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/58 "2019-03-06T17:40:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s not just us picking on you; we do it to everyone. [No we don’t.](https://vimeo.com/25921512) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/59 "2019-03-06T18:01:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > {…} I assure you that we can argue about _anything_ here. {…} No we can’t. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582/60 "2019-03-06T18:12:30Z")
Well, at least there’s no one around going [“I told you so”](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21520764&postcount=11). They’re the worst! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cosmos-is-all/830582.md?page=4)