# The Crane Brouhaha over Gaza, Pit edition

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crane-brouhaha-over-gaza-pit-edition/1000742>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [April 19, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crane-brouhaha-over-gaza-pit-edition/1000742 "2024-04-19T08:11:04Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 18

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**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crane-brouhaha-over-gaza-pit-edition/1000742/18 "2024-04-22T12:08:23Z")

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> [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/2579):
>
> > [@BigT](#):
> >
> > MrDibble’s claim that his original post could have just been hyperbole to express emotion. ⁢
> 
> That was not my claim. I specifically said he was being a hyperbolic dick to troll. From my first post:
> 
> > [@Bad Moderation in "Hamas Attacks Israel" MPSIMS thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-moderation-in-hamas-attacks-israel-mpsims-thread/1000412/12):
> >
> > Was he trolling for reaction? I’d say yes ⁢
> 
> I just disagree that trolling the particular group he set out to troll constitutes antisemitism, to any degree.
> 
> And since we’re in the Pit : fuck off with thinking your very poor readings of any of my previous posts on particular racists have any relevance here. You’re not going to catch me in whatever pseudo-logical gotcha you were attempting, because my stance is consistent. But do feel free to try it on here in the Pit, where I can give your personalizing of the argument all due reverence… ⁢

There’s no contradiction here. You also said what I said.

> Look, my feeling is - once you believe, as I do, that both the Nazis and IOF are génocidaires, expressing Shock! and Horror! that anyone even dare make the comparison or say someone is worse than the Nazis just starts seeming like sowing FUD of a different kind.

You were saying that the comparison is an okay thing to say as an emotional reaction.

And I have no problem continuing the argument here, but I don’t quite know what you mean by “personalizing the argument.” If it means referencing perceived inconsistencies with what you’ve said in the past, then I don’t understand why you object. I would expect the same from others. I can either explain why it isn’t inconsistent, or reevaluate to see if I am or was wrong. But I can try to avoid it.

I still contend that people calling you antisemitic should not be relevant when determining if a poster was being antisemitic. You are not evaluating based on any Doper’s say-so. You can look at what the poster said, and look at the logic in the arguments being made to claim it was antisemitic.

I also think you’re conflating “said something antisemitic” with “being an antisemite”. I agree with you that there is insufficient evidence that Crane is an antisemite. But I do think there is enough evidence to show that, on the whole, what he said is antisemitic.

And I don’t agree with you that his statement only attacked Zionists, because Zionists were not the only ones harmed in the Holocaust. Any downplaying of what happened in the Holocaust attacks all Jewish people. His attack trolled Jewish people as a whole, and trolling a specific ethnicity is bigotry towards that ethnicity.

I also just don’t agree that ignorance means something isn’t bigoted, as a general principle. I do not agree that the message that antebellum Black slaves were not really mistreated by their masters is not racists, even if the person who says it really didn’t know they were wrong. The claim itself is racist, just like a claim that minimizes how the Waffen SS treated Jewish people. In fact, the only way I can see Crane to believe that they were “kinder” is that he heard it from some neo-Nazis.

Finally, I will say that I thought the principles behind what I’m saying was stuff we agreed on, based on things you’ve said in the past. My reaction was more of being bewildered by your arguments. But, if you are not being inconsistent, then I will take that under advisement and reassess my understanding of what you have said in the past.

Because you were the last person I thought I’d see argue that what Crane said wasn’t antisemitic, and the last person I thought would make the arguments you did.

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