# The creation of Israel was not a colonial project **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967 "2023-10-23T18:48:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/41 "2023-10-23T21:08:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In the early 20th, Europe was quite reasonably seen by most Jews as the last place they would want to live. To add some perspective to this, many Jews at the time did not feel particularly welcome in North America, either. You referred to it as “white supremacist North America” but it was also to a large extend anti-semitic North America. One of the interesting bits of historical insight from the well-researched book **[_In the Garden of Beasts_](https://eriklarsonbooks.com/book/in-the-garden-of-beasts/)** by Erik Larson, about the experiences of American ambassador to Nazi Germany William Dodd in 1933-34, was the sociopolitical attitude in the US at the time. There was a great deal of anti-semitism in America, and the US was relatively conciliatory towards Hitler. There seemed little awareness of what was brewing in Nazi Germany, though in 1933 the first concentration camps were already being established. Indeed, as late as June, 1939, three months before the start of World War 2, when the pogrom in Nazi Germany was well under way, **[the infamous incident of the MS St Louis](https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewish-refugee-ship-st-louis-1939)** occurred wherein a ship carrying 900 Jewish refugees, many of them children, escaping Nazi Germany was turned away by immigration authorities, first by Cuba, then by the United States, then finally, sad to say, by my own country Canada. In the end, a third of them perished in the Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/42 "2023-10-23T21:14:18Z")
“Colonialism is always unacceptable” seems to me to be an accepted axiom for most of the left. If the Jews’ creation of Israel was colonialism, then that waters down that axiom into nothing useful… and it means that “evil colonialists!” isn’t nearly the criticism, by itself, that much of the left uses it as (and obviously not just against Israel but the real historical colonial powers). Maybe this is just semantics… but there should be a term separating the truly monstrous exploitation and nigh-genocide executed by (mostly) Western and Northern European countries of the Americas, Africa, much of Asia, and elsewhere, from desperate “settle or die” scenarios like the first Israelis faced. I thought that term was colonialism. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/43 "2023-10-23T21:17:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > but is it true that historically, most Jews living in Europe would have denied a European identity, or even an identity with the nation or kingdom that they lived in? That a Jew living in Spain would have denied that they were Spanish, for example? Given that Jews in Spain were given the options of converting to Christianity or expulsion from Spain, yes, I would guess that there were identity issues there: > Over half of Spain’s Jews had converted to [Catholicism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism) as a result of the [Massacre of 1391](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_1391).[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain#cite_note-P%C3%A9rez_2012_17-2)Due to continuing attacks, around 50,000 more had converted by 1415.[[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain#cite_note-:1-3) Those who remained decided to convert to avoid expulsion. As a result of the Alhambra decree and the prior persecution, over 200,000 Jews converted to Catholicism and between 40,000 and 100,000 were expelled. And Jews were expelled from England by Edward I, and not formally allowed to return until the Commonwealth under Cromwell: > The edict was not an isolated incident, but the culmination of over 200 years of increasing [antisemitism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism) in England. And pogroms in Russia, Germany, and elsewhere: > A **pogrom** [[a]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#cite_note-1) is a violent [riot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot) incited with the aim of [massacring](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre) or expelling an ethnic or religious group, particularly [Jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews).[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#cite_note-Britannica-2) The term entered the English language from Russian to describe 19th- and 20th-century [attacks on Jews in the Russian Empire](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire) (mostly within the [Pale of Settlement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement)). Similar attacks against Jews which also occurred at other times and places became known retrospectively as pogroms.[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#cite_note-Brass-3)Sometimes And the blood libel, common across Europe: > **Blood libel** or **ritual murder libel** (also **blood accusation** )[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#cite_note-JewishEncyclopedia-1)[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#cite_note-dundes-2) is an [antisemitic canard](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canard)[[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#cite_note-Turvey2008p3-3)[[4]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#cite_note-Chanes2004pp34-35-4)[[5]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#cite_note-Goldish2008p8-5) which falsely accuses Jews of murdering [Christian](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians) boys in order to use their [blood](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_blood) in the performance of [religious rituals](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ritual).[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#cite_note-JewishEncyclopedia-1)[[2]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#cite_note-dundes-2)[[6]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#cite_note-zeitlin-6) And…and…and… > **[Expulsion of Jews from Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain)** > > The Expulsion of Jews from Spain was the expulsion of practicing Jews following the Alhambra Decree in 1492, which was enacted in order to eliminate their influence on Spain's large converso population and to ensure its members did not revert to Judaism. Over half of Spain's Jews had converted to Catholicism as a result of the Massacre of 1391. Due to continuing attacks, around 50,000 more had converted by 1415. Those who remained decided to convert to avoid expulsion. As a result of the In 1924,... > **[Edict of Expulsion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion)** > > The Edict of Expulsion was a royal decree issued by Edward I of England on 18 July 1290 expelling all Jews from the Kingdom of England. Edward told the sheriffs of all counties he wanted all Jews expelled by no later than All Saints' Day (1 November) that year. The expulsion edict remained in force for the rest of the Middle Ages. The edict was not an isolated incident, but the culmination of over 200 years of increasing antisemitism in England. The edict was eventually overturned more than 365... > **[Blood libel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel)** > > Blood libel or ritual murder libel (also blood accusation) is an antisemitic canard which falsely accuses Jews of murdering Christians in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals. Echoing very old myths of secret cultic practices in many prehistoric societies, the claim, as it is leveled against Jews, was rarely attested to in antiquity. According to Tertullian, it originally emerged in late antiquity as an accusation made against members of the ear Blood libels often cl... > **[Pogrom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom)** > > A pogrom\[a\] is a violent riot incited with the aim of massacring or expelling an ethnic or religious group, particularly Jews. The term entered the English language from Russian to describe 19th- and 20th-century attacks on Jews in the Russian Empire (mostly within the Pale of Settlement). Similar attacks against Jews which also occurred at other times and places became known retrospectively as pogroms. Sometimes the word is used to describe publicly sanctioned purgative attacks against non Signi... ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/44 "2023-10-23T21:18:53Z")
It is absurd to say European Jews were not European. It is absurd to say American Jews are not American. It is absurd to say Israeli Jews are not Israeli. It doesn’t matter if other Europeans had been trying to kill European Jews for centuries, those Jews still live in Europe just like the other Europeans trying to kill them. European Jews moved to Israel because they wanted to get the hell out of Europe. No surprise because other Europeans had tried and succeeded at killing millions of them. They wanted to create a Jewish homeland in Israel because they had no where else to go where they could feel safe. That does not change the fact that the creation of an independent nation accepted by the world was tied to British Colonialism through the acceptance of the British as owners of the land involved and they had the right to give it to the Jewish people as a homeland. That is hardly the entire story but it is pointless to deny it which is what the OP does in trying to justify the title of the thread. It is easy to explain that it was not a colonial project. It was not planned and executed by Britain to create a colony for their benefit. European Jews and Jews from around the world moved there because they felt entitled to a homeland because of their treatment in other countries over centuries, and that they had a religious right to that land. The western world through political consensus based on numerous factors and a heavy dose of guilt for their involvement in the horrible treatment and killing of millions of Jews in WWII acknowledged Israel’s status as an independent country. The OP explains most of it but the effects of colonialism are not so limited as to give them no mention what so ever. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/45 "2023-10-23T21:24:25Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It is absurd to say European Jews were not European Tell that to the Europeans who made sure us Jews were very clear on the fact that we did not belong. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/46 "2023-10-23T21:24:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > most Jews living in Europe would have denied a European identity, Depends on the time and place. Many proud [German/Spanish/Roman/Whatever] Jews were dragged from their homes and murdered once the inquisitions/pogroms/cleansings started. It **doesn’t matter what you believe** once the wheel of history turns back towards Jew-killing. And it **always** turns back that way. So some Jews probably considered themselves European, and in certain golden ages might have lived their whole lives that way. Some Jews considered themselves European and violently were disabused of that notion. Many more Jews understood (and understand) that our nationalistic identities only exist so long as our nations allow **us** to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/47 "2023-10-23T21:25:56Z")
I have to wonder what TriPolar thinks would have happened differently had the British chosen _not_ to recognize Israel. The Israelis would have been so demoralized by the lack of British approval they would have lost the war? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/48 "2023-10-23T21:29:06Z")
The Jews occupied a territory, subjugating others present who had at least as legitimate of a claim to the land as the Jews. And they were strong enough to keep - and expand - the territory. Good for them. Peoples have been doing that throughout history. You don’t like the term colonialism - by either the Jews or the western powers. Fine. Pick another word. Still doesn’t make their claim particularly noble or just. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/49 "2023-10-23T21:30:55Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Still doesn’t make their claim particularly noble or just. Whose claim? If you mean the Jews’ creation of Israel, I don’t know if “noble” or “just” can apply (on either side) to a circumstance in which the choice is “settle here or risk annihilation”. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/50 "2023-10-23T21:32:52Z")
I don’t think that for most of Jewish history there was even a concept of “European” being a thing. When people wanted to talk about European civilizations collectively, they usually used the term “Christendom”, which obviously left us out. It wasn’t until quite recent times that a non-religious concept of “European civilization” evolved. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/51 "2023-10-23T21:33:59Z")
Hmm…remain alive or have **Dinsdale** consider me less than noble and just? Real tough call there, gonna have to think about this one. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/52 "2023-10-23T21:37:32Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > European Jews and Jews from around the world moved there because they felt entitled to a homeland because of their treatment in other countries over centuries, and that they had a religious right to that land. Another line suggesting that you have a very poor grasp of the relevant history. In the pre-State period, Zionism was an exclusively secular movement and certainly didn’t base any of its claims on religion. The early Zionists felt that once the Jews were secure in their homeland, they would no longer need to cling to primitive superstition and religious Judaism would vanish from Israel. It’s taking longer than they thought… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/53 "2023-10-23T21:44:13Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > In the pre-State period, Zionism was an exclusively secular movement and certainly didn’t base any of its claims on religion. In fact many religious Jews felt that recreating a Jewish state without waiting for God’s signal (IE the Messiah) was misguided at best and an adoption of a false Messiah at worst. Or otherwise, that Nationalism is a distraction from pure devotion to God. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/54 "2023-10-23T21:52:57Z")
And they’re still around; check out the Neturei Karta, whose driving principle seems to be “Let’s make sure _everyone_ hates us!” I love how even the other pro-Palestinian demonstrators are giving these guys a very wide berth. [![](https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/392935750_356652750258600_1394316559254026347_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=TwPWlBtK0JcAX-UGk6i&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfBdc8W3EYtDaqj2v6GvSe2lFKkdtdvZ0gUAB88ZvrP8vQ&oe=653B5B6C) ](https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/392935750_356652750258600_1394316559254026347_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=TwPWlBtK0JcAX-UGk6i&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfBdc8W3EYtDaqj2v6GvSe2lFKkdtdvZ0gUAB88ZvrP8vQ&oe=653B5B6C) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/55 "2023-10-23T21:56:14Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > More seriously, I have a hard time with a definition of colonialism which doesn’t involve some element of volition on the part of the colonizing power; they could have chosen to stay home and leave those people alone, but they chose not to. That doesn’t apply here. More Jews live outside Israel than inside of Israel, as has been the case since the Diaspora. The trope of “they had nowhere to go” does not work. There are lots of marginalized communities in the world. Most of them don’t get land carved out of where other people have been living for generations and centuries on the authority of a holy book. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/56 "2023-10-23T21:56:19Z")
Even Chabad originally opposed Israel because they feared it would make the Jewish people turn to Israeli nationalism as a unifying force rather than adherence to Rabbinical Judaism. And that’s still the motivating philosophy behind the hard religious right parties, who refuse to serve in the army while ensuring the state continues to pay them to sit around and “study”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/57 "2023-10-23T22:00:47Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > More Jews live outside Israel than inside of Israel, as has been the case since the Diaspora. The trope of “they had nowhere to go” does not work. > > There are lots of marginalized communities in the world. Most of them don’t get land carved out of where other people have been living for generations and centuries on the authority of a holy book. Where could/should they have gone? Jim Crow/KKK America? How/why could they have had any confidence that America, which tolerated and even encouraged lynchings and white supremacist violence, would have been a safe place for them? This seems awfully dismissive of centuries of brutal pogroms, culminating in the murder of 6 million. That’s a bit more than “marginalized” (not to mention this ahistorical notion that the formation of Israel was based on “the authority of a holy book”). ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/58 "2023-10-23T22:03:22Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > There seemed little awareness of what was brewing in Nazi Germany, though in 1933 the first concentration camps were already being established. Antisemitism was a core tenet of Nazism before it even took power, but the concentration camps set up when the Nazis came to power ([_Konzentrationslager_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps)) were for dealing with political opponents of the regime, not to solve “the Jewish Question”; about 90% of the initial populations of them being communists and social democrats. The extermination camps ([_Vernichtungslager_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp)) were very different from concentration camps, as the name explicitly states, and weren’t set up until starting in late 1941. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/59 "2023-10-23T22:06:51Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > More Jews live outside Israel than inside of Israel, as has been the case since the Diaspora. The trope of “they had nowhere to go” does not work. The treatment of Jews changed _dramatically_ once we had a country to represent us. Diaspora Jews get to enjoy lower levels of discrimination because Israel calls out antisemetism around the world loudly and often. And when Jews are getting ethnically cleansed, like the Beta Israel in Ethiopia, Israel is there to welcome them in. No more ping-ponging around the Atlantic in a leaky boat before being sent back to the gas chambers. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > There are lots of marginalized communities in the world. Most of them don’t get land carved out of where other people have been living for generations and centuries on the authority of a holy book. And that’s precisely why [Uyghurs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide) and [Assyrians](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayfo) and [Kurds](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign) and [Native Mesopotamians](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/26/weekinreview/the-world-the-killing-of-iraq-s-ancient-marsh-culture.html) and [Karens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_conflict) and [Sami](https://www.politico.eu/article/sami-reconciliation-process-sweden-minority-multiculturalism-human-rights-discrimination/) and Native Americans and Palestinians and African-Americans have, for centuries, been mistreated, and they will continue to be mistreated until they are wiped out or until a nation-state that actually prioritizes their well-being comes to power. Personally, I would support giving these peoples nations as well, to ensure that some group with international clout is there to protect their rights. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967/60 "2023-10-23T22:09:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If this is so, then the Jews of the late 19th and early-mid 20th centuries had to choose between colonialism or annihilation. There was nowhere on Earth they could have reasonably assumed they would have been safe. Weren’t there a bunch of half-baked, probably non-viable proposals to set up a Jewish homeland in different places around the world? E.G., Central Asia? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-creation-of-israel-was-not-a-colonial-project/991967.md?page=4)