# The Crimes of the Landlord; the Culpability of the Tenant **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 27, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646 "2013-07-27T02:45:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/1 "2013-07-27T02:45:01Z")
You are not my lawyer, I am not your client. Suppose a guy converts the upper floor of his house to an apartment. He rents it out, and he lives on the main floor. Also, he has a hydroponic cannabis grow operation in the basement. When he’s busted by the cops, can his tenants be charged with manufacture/possession as well? ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/2 "2013-07-27T14:01:24Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > When he’s busted by the cops, can his tenants be charged with manufacture/possession as well? To be charged with possession, the state must prove the person/s had what is basically known as “dominion and control”. While case law varies state to state, it would be hard to show even a casual connection of the tenants. If it could be proven they frequented the downstairs as guests and continued to let the enterprise flourish, or were on the “compact premises” (meaning downstairs with them) when a SW was executed, it could create liability? Compare, Maryland v. Pringle, possession in an automobile and all were charged. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/3 "2013-07-27T14:15:16Z")
If you like everything else about the place, maybe ask him if he can move his operation to a section of the basement that you’re ‘not allowed access to’. Behind a closed door or something like that. That way, if something ever does happen, you can claim that you just when down to the basement once a week to do your laundry and that was it. As long as the smell isn’t overwhelming, you’ll probably be safe. Otherwise maybe just don’t store anything down there and do your laundry at laundromat. You might be able to claim you never noticed it to begin with. I’m sure the typical doper response in the land of no middle ground is going to be “Move out NOW and call the police”. BTW, how big of an operation is this? If he’s growing three plants for himself, you probably don’t have to be all that concerned (because nothing’s likely to become of it). If it’s so big that the electric company is going to take notice and he’s got HEPA filters so the whole neighborhood doesn’t notice the smell, then, yeah, you might consider just moving out. Why do think he’s going to get busted? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/4 "2013-07-27T15:04:36Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Why do think he’s going to get busted? Because he knows about it, would be my guess. Doing a small hydro grow successfully means **nobody** knows. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/5 "2013-07-27T15:10:02Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > When he’s busted by the cops, can his tenants be charged with manufacture/possession as well? There’s still a difference between being charged and being successfully prosecuted, right? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/6 "2013-07-27T16:02:18Z")
One can be an accessory to a crime, simply by knowing that it is being committed. Like any other crime in a perfect judiciary (not applicable in this world), the prosecution has to prove that the tenant was knowledgeable about criminal activity and tacitly abetted it through silence. A person cannot be charged as an accessory until there is a conviction for the crime itself. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/7 "2013-07-27T16:27:01Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Because he knows about it, would be my guess. Doing a small hydro grow successfully means **nobody** knows. But that would depend on if he has 10-8 inch tall plants in his ‘operation’ and the only person who knows about is the upstairs tenant that stumbled upon it or if he has 300 plants in 5 gallon containers and the OP knows he’s going to get busted because you can smell it from the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/8 "2013-07-27T16:32:02Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m sure the typical doper response in the land of no middle ground is going to be “Move out NOW and call the police”. > > \ > > Why do think he’s going to get busted? Well, I will _NOT_ be calling the police. I think cannabis laws are unjust and immoral. Not to mention that he and I do business besides just rent, if you get what I’m sayin. The operation is three plants, _way_ the hell down in a part of the basement that I couldn’t get into without a key, which I don’t have and don’t need. As to why I think he’s going to get busted: forgive my tin-foil hat paranoia here, but if the local constabulary picks up on the fact that lots of vehicles come and go throughout the course of the day, staying only a few minutes at a time, a search warrant is likely to be issued. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/9 "2013-07-27T16:34:49Z")
No traffic at grow sites! OMG, that’s basic security!! ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/10 "2013-07-27T16:36:33Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Well, I will _NOT_ be calling the police. I think cannabis laws are unjust and immoral. Not to mention that he and I do business besides just rent, if you get what I’m sayin. > > The operation is three plants, _way_ the hell down in a part of the basement that I couldn’t get into without a key, which I don’t have and don’t need. > > As to why I think he’s going to get busted: forgive my tin-foil hat paranoia here, but if the local constabulary picks up on the fact that lots of vehicles come and go throughout the course of the day, staying only a few minutes at a time, a search warrant is likely to be issued. I think you’ll be fine. You don’t have any access, much less possession of the plants and his dealing will be something the police will take up with him, not you. If your concerned about the stuff going on in the basement, just don’t store anything down there and do your laundry (if that’s where the machines are) somewhere else or don’t spend any time down there. It’ll make it easier to deny knowledge of later on. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/11 "2013-07-27T16:38:07Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > No traffic at grow sites! OMG, that’s basic security!! Yep. Bad, bad, bad.☹ ---
**Author:** ![jaysamm15](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@jaysamm15](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaysamm15)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/12 "2013-07-27T16:58:24Z")
Depends on which state you are in. Some states allow knock and talks and if the police smell it or see parifanellia, they may enter. If the owner of the house takes the wrap, you wouldnt be charged… Depending on the officers/situation. But if you live somewhere and know of illegal operations going on, you are obligated to turn them over to athourities. > [@heyhomie](#): > > you are not my lawyer, i am not your client. > > Suppose a guy converts the upper floor of his house to an apartment. He rents it out, and he lives on the main floor. Also, he has a hydroponic cannabis grow operation in the basement. > > When he’s busted by the cops, can his tenants be charged with manufacture/possession as well? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/13 "2013-07-27T17:06:24Z")
Over here the growers seem, for obvious reasons, to not use their own houses. The usual scene is to rent a house from an ‘unsuspecting’ landlord, wire the power to cut out the meter, and grow as many plants as they can. If - when the cops turn up, they find a couple of guys who ‘no speaka da English’ and they get arrested, the plants get shredded, and the owners just look for another rental. I have read that some places the cops use thermal imaging from helicopters to spot the “hot” houses. ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/14 "2013-07-27T17:07:35Z")
You may also want to avoid posting about your knowledge of the crime on a public message board. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/15 "2013-07-27T17:12:50Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I have read that some places the cops use thermal imaging from helicopters to spot the “hot” houses. That’s pretty old technology. Everybody probably has it by now. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/16 "2013-07-27T17:32:09Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Over here the growers seem, for obvious reasons, to not use their own houses. The usual scene is to rent a house from an ‘unsuspecting’ landlord, wire the power to cut out the meter, and grow as many plants as they can. > > If - when the cops turn up, they find a couple of guys who ‘no speaka da English’ and they get arrested, the plants get shredded, and the owners just look for another rental. > > I have read that some places the cops use thermal imaging from helicopters to spot the “hot” houses. I don’t think any of these issues are going to be a problem for someone with a “three plant operation”. Electric companies take notice when your electric bill is $5000 a month instead of $300. Thermal imaging is a problem when you have so many lights that your house is actually giving off heat, even in summer. This guy, if I had to guess, is probably using less then 100w of extra electricity. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/17 "2013-07-27T18:53:33Z")
I guess the other question is how “private” is the apartment, and do these tenants have typical access to the basement (i.e. laundry facilities)? You can’t be busted for the grow-op in the apartment beside yours, usually. Why would you be busted for what’s going on in the domicile under yours? However, if it’s happening in an area you frequent the argument would be that you were “in on it”. Do you have to walk through his area to get to your front door? Do you use the basement for laundry or storage, so it could be considered part of your domicile? And of course, based on many cases in the news, prosecutors are more interested in convictions than justice, typically; if the owner decided to testify that you were “in on it” and knew all about it, in return for 5 years off his sentence, what’s you comeback? Best case you go broke winning the case. Based on what happens when the shit hits the fan, the other poster is right… get as far away as you can. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/18 "2013-07-28T15:23:05Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I have read that some places the cops use thermal imaging from helicopters to spot the “hot” houses. Last I heard, this wasn’t legal in the US (without a warrant, and at that point you are fooked anyway). Usual way grows get busted is somebody talks too much. Angry ex-gf is a common element, or a disgruntled customer. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/19 "2013-07-28T15:38:58Z")
I heard about two guys in Canada arrested after a home invasion. They explained to police they thought the place was a grow-op, based on the smell. The cops went back and busted the house next door… Not exactly your case, but… from this thread: > **[can the police confiscate your home if they find drugs in it](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696916)** > > I know cops can and do confiscate vehicles they find drugs in. I always found this to be legalized theft (unless the car was bought with drug money, but I get the impression even recreational users can have their cars taken). what about homes? if a... I linked this article: [http://articles.courant.com/1992-03-22/news/0000204277\_1\_leslie-ohta-prosecutors-study-property-seizure-drug-dealers/2](http://articles.courant.com/1992-03-22/news/0000204277_1_leslie-ohta-prosecutors-study-property-seizure-drug-dealers/2) The grandparents were charged with possession despite their claim they did not know their grandson had pot in a suitcase in his own room. It looks like this was a prosecutor tactic, they were pressured into pleading down to a possession charge which then, they possibly did not realize, allowed the prosecutor to take their house. Again, unless you have nothing to lose financially and a clean criminal record does not figure into your future plans, get as far away as you can. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646/20 "2013-07-28T15:48:10Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > One can be an accessory to a crime, simply by knowing that it is being committed. Like any other crime in a perfect judiciary (not applicable in this world), the prosecution has to prove that the tenant was knowledgeable about criminal activity and tacitly abetted it through silence. > > A person cannot be charged as an accessory until there is a conviction for the crime itself. I disagree with both of these points. In Washington, which is not unusual, this is the test; Washington Pattern Jury Instruction WPIC 10.51 Accomplice—Definition > [@](#): > > [A person is guilty of a crime if it is committed by the conduct of another person for which he or she is legally accountable. A person is legally accountable for the conduct of another person when he or she is an accomplice of such other person in the commission of the crime.] > A person is an accomplice in the commission of a crime if, with knowledge that it will promote or facilitate the commission of the crime, he or she either: > (1) solicits, commands, encourages, or requests another person to commit the crime; or > (2) aids or agrees to aid another person in planning or committing the crime. > The word “aid” means all assistance whether given by words, acts, encouragement, support, or presence. A person who is present at the scene and ready to assist by his or her presence is aiding in the commission of the crime. However, more than mere presence and knowledge of the criminal activity of another must be shown to establish that a person present is an accomplice. > [A person who is an accomplice in the commission of a crime is guilty of that crime whether present at the scene or not.] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimes-of-the-landlord-the-culpability-of-the-tenant/664646.md?page=2)