# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/201 "2009-04-30T15:43:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which is exactly why first-day votes are valuable. Right or wrong, they stimulate discussion, which helps the game achieve, er, regularity. [quote=“Chronos, post:199, topic:494271”] [Snip] …This is the first game that I’ve actually played, though I’ve watched several others. Decide for yourself whether that constitutes “experienced”, of course. /QUOTE] 😕 These two quotes just don’t jive together that well for me. I think most of us are closer to Noob than not. That is not to say that we are as sharp as a rolling ball. I don’t think we are. Face Value: Your plan as stated was a systematic change of the town to a party that was not town. I think the jury is out on how that plan is going to go. I was against it in my own way, and based on that, and other reasons (Umlauts included ;)) I feel I have to deny you your Night choice. First day is a crapshoot. I don’t feel as moved to spurious george. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/202 "2009-04-30T15:44:36Z")
NETA : I believe we are Sharper than a rolling ball. Not Editing will kill me. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/203 "2009-04-30T15:55:29Z")
[quote=“Meeko, post:201, topic:494271”] > [@Chronos](#): > > First day is a crapshoot. I don’t feel as moved to spurious george. Meeko, what are your thoughts on ostracization vs. execution, especially with it being a crapshoot? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/204 "2009-04-30T16:12:25Z")
By the way, my above post(#203) did not come out correctly because I was actually quoting Meeko, and the coding was messed up. **I was quoting Meeko, not Chronos.** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/205 "2009-04-30T16:20:24Z")
[quote=“Mahaloth, post:203, topic:494271”] > [@Meeko](#): > > Meeko, what are your thoughts on ostracization vs. execution, especially with it being a crapshoot? Sure. Not a problem. I understand what you are saying here. Let me explain my stance. Pure and simple, Chronos just doesn’t smell right to me. The plan he mentions is not good for Town. Period. I feel that Chronos is non-town. I feel that\*\* he does have a night choice\*\*. I also need to vote early. (As do we all.) I could have this wrong. However, for the first day, I think I need to follow through here. If I have it wrong, and I get Chronos ostracized, then he will gun after me. I simply can’t do a Half measure here. I view Ostracizing as hesitation. I view Execution is needed here. Most people will tell you, when you hesitate, more times than not, you make the wrong choice. If Chronos survives, I am sure my opinion on him will change. That is certain. I am just not sure which way my opinion will change. * * * Quasi Related : If I am wrong, does someone mind telling me what Spurious did wrong, again? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/206 "2009-04-30T16:21:27Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > By the way, my above post(#203) did not come out correctly because I was actually quoting Meeko, and the coding was messed up. > > **I was quoting Meeko, not Chronos.** \*\*It wold seem all quotes are off here. I was meaning to Quote Mahaloth. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/207 "2009-04-30T16:49:05Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Speaking of bandwagons, the Spurious George one actually seems like a decent day 1 Bandwagon. Those are pretty rare. But in this case, it seems likely. Bandwagons are evil, especially ones based on vapor. **Ostracize Nanook of the North Shore** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/208 "2009-04-30T16:56:09Z")
Telcon, I’m not the only one who doesn’t fully follow the Spurious George, right? I mean, true non sequitur there, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/209 "2009-04-30T16:56:19Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > **[ol] > [li]Can the Sinner tempts the Blackhearts?[/li][li]If so, can the Blackhearts pray to avoid becoming sinners?[/li][li]Can the Blackhearts become Sinners through the last to vote to execute rule?[/li][li]Is it possible for more than 1 faction to win this game?[/li][/ol]** 1. If a Blackheart is previously non-sinned, he can be ensinned. However, this would not change his or her win condition. 2. If a previously pure Blackheart was infected, then yes, that player could pray. 3. If previously uninfected, they could get infected in this manner, but it would not change their win condition. 4. No. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > \*\*errrr, George didn’t vote for himself, I voted for george > > And while we’re here, I have another question that you probably can’t answer. It appears as though E/O decesion is a majority, and it also appears that it’s the majority of ALL votes, as opposed to tallying only the votes for the vote winner. If the person is Executed, is the person who get’s the seed of sin the last person to vote execute for the lynched, or the last person to vote Execute for anyone?\*\* Sorry, I’ll fix it. As for the question, the latter. Vote Count: AngeloftheNorth (2): Special Ed, Spurious George Spurious George (5): Chronos, AllWalker, Mahaloth, Joey P., Nanook Chronos (1): Meeko Nanook of the North Shore (1): Telcontar E (2): Spurious George, Meeko O (6): Special Ed, Chronos, AllWalker, Mahaloth, Joey P., nanook, Telcontar ---
**Author:** ![Spurious\_George](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Spurious\_George](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spurious_George)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/210 "2009-04-30T16:57:27Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I have a quick question. > > I see that two votes have been placed for execution instead of ostracization. Why did you guys vote to execute instead of ostracize? > > It seems to me that early on in the game, when we basically are guessing, ostracization would be better, though I may be wrong. > > Thoughts? > [@pedescribe from post #2](#): > > Also, on lynching. There are two ways to lynch: Ostricization and Execution. If the town ostracizes a player, there’s a chance that that person might ignore the order and do something that night, but it is the morally appropriate way of clensing the town. I took ped’s statement to imply that Ostracization was an inferior and unreliable way of eliminating someone. Executing has its dangers, but it works. Perhaps I should have joined a less obfuscated and complex game for my first board game here. “Figuring out the rules as you stumble along” is not a game state I generally enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Spurious\_George](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Spurious\_George](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spurious_George)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/211 "2009-04-30T17:09:42Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I’m not the only one who doesn’t fully follow the Spurious George, right? > > I mean, true non sequitur there, eh? I made a joke about getting back at Mahaloth for listing me on his “quiet Townsfolk” list. This has not gone over well. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/212 "2009-04-30T17:12:20Z")
\*\*Stupid question: Per Day, only one person will be Ostracized OR Executed. Correct? Given that Spurious has 5 votes against to Ostracize him, at the pressent moment, I have nothing to worry about, correct? \*\* \*\* That is to say, I only have to worry about becoming ensinned if Chronos gets Executed before tonight, AND that no one else votes Execute Chronos. Correct? Given that Spurious has more votes on him, I can not become ensinned, as long as all votes currently remain the same, correct? \*\* I thought I understood this, but as more and more questions get thrown in, I get more confused. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/213 "2009-04-30T17:16:09Z")
Let me respond to Telcontar and Meeko about Spurious George. Honestly, I’m still not sure. **I almost prefer voting to ostracize someone who has a very low post count, since it is indeed a crapshoot for the most part.** Don’t interpret my vote as a serious belief that he is 100% scum. I think that based on little evidence, it should either be him that goes or someone with a low post count. None of us want to die on Day One, anyway. **Anyone else want to consider ostracizing someone with a low post count instead of any of those who have received votes at this point? I’m game for that just as well.** So, I mentioned my reasons for voting for Spurious in post #167 [Post 167](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11090748&postcount=167) Bascially, I don’t like that he made it sound like I put him on a list, when at that time he had a very low post count. Two, he voted to execute with very little reason(and did not explain himself like Meeko did), when I felt that ostracization would have been more obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/214 "2009-04-30T17:20:54Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*Stupid question: > > Per Day, only one person will be Ostracized OR Executed. Correct? > > Given that Spurious has 5 votes against to Ostracize him, at the pressent moment, I have nothing to worry about, correct? \*\* > > \*\* > That is to say, I only have to worry about becoming ensinned if Chronos gets Executed before tonight, AND that no one else votes Execute Chronos. Correct? > > Given that Spurious has more votes on him, I can not become ensinned, as long as all votes currently remain the same, correct? \*\* > > I thought I understood this, but as more and more questions get thrown in, I get more confused. Yes, yes, yes, and yes. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/215 "2009-04-30T17:34:20Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Telcon, > > I’m not the only one who doesn’t fully follow the Spurious George, right? > > I mean, true non sequitur there, eh? I’ve been a bit out of it, but I don’t think there’s any merit to it either. It just seems…bizarre. But day one votings are always bizarre. I think Chronos is being weird for stirring the pot too soon. \*\* Ostracize Chronos\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/216 "2009-04-30T17:57:23Z")
I’ve talked myself into it. I’m starting to get concerned that we are targeting vocal people, which I really feel is not a great way to start. If we eliminate vocal people in the early stages of the game, we may end up regretting it later. In fact, I’ll start off by voting for someone with a low post count. Please feel free to follow along if you think this is a fair and acceptable way to eliminate someone on Day One, where we have little evidence. **Unostracize Spurious George** **Ostracize Captain Pinkies** He is in the game and has one post. He might be scum or he might not be, but it’s worth a shot, unless some scum person slips up. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/217 "2009-04-30T19:57:53Z")
Ah, finally we have some votes to analyze, recriminations flying back and forth. Good times.😃 **Chronos’** plan was bold, audacious and weird. My first instinct was to vote for him straight away for proposing an alliance with non-Town elements. After further thought, though, I found it hard to see scum motivation for proposing a plan whose first step was that all the scum should identify themselves! I would like to hear from the **Chronos** voters exactly why they thought this seemed scummy. (The plan itself, of course, now seems fatally flawed by subsequent rule clarifications) **Spurious G** (sounds like a white suburban rapper) has got five (now four) votes for a total of four reasons, three of which seem completely, well, spurious to me. 1 -2. He “identified himself as a sinner” and “took offense” to **Mahaloth’s** putting him on a list of low posters. Both of these seemed like obvious jokes to me. 1. He voted to execute without clearly explaining why. As I stated in my post yesterday, I don’t feel it’s safe to assume that just because execution has an _obvious_ downside, ostracization must be the preferred option. I think it is much more likely that ostracizing has some not-yet-obvious downside, and that we don’t yet have enough information to make an informed judgment about which is preferable. So, I’m not going to jump on him for that, any more than I will jump on the numerous players who voted to ostracize without explaining why. 2. He says he is “a fan of bandwagons”. :dubious: Really? The only people I know who like bandwagons for their own sake are scum who see them as easy ways to eliminate Townies. I definitely would like to hear some clarification on this point, **Spurious.** I would also like to hear from **Telcontar** why this remark didn’t get a vote from him, but he did vote for **Nanook** for saying (admittedly without explanation) that _this particular_ bandwagon seemed “decent”. I am _not_ a fan of bandwagons, and will view the folks who jumped on this one with some suspicion if **Spurious** is lynched and turns up Town. I particularly wonder about **Mahaloth** , whose reaction to **Spurious** ’ comment about “The List” went from “it’s cool” (post 162) to voting for him in post 166. And now, with **Spurious** comfortably in the lead, he has unvoted him and voted for someone who formerly had no votes; this would be consistent with the actions of scum trying to get someone lynched without having to have his name in the final vote count. However, for my first vote, I am going to have to follow through with my threat from yesterday. I don’t think we can allow people to get away with editing posts, because it potentially deprives us of the ability to spot scum slips. I reserve the right to change my mind if someone else looks genuinely suspicious, but for now **Ostracize Angel of the North** I also note that **Angel** looks like a good choice from the “lynch the lurker” perspective as well… My E/O decision, by the way, was made by coin flip. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/218 "2009-04-30T20:07:52Z")
Voting blindly like **Chronos** did seems like a waste. This isn’t a game that can be won just by killing like the last one. Every single thing we do has a catch. Though I don’t think we should execute anyone. Then we’re just spreading sin which seems just as bad as losing town members. I’ve never played a game with anything like sin but it seems like the equivalent of werewolves recruiting or something. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/219 "2009-04-30T20:10:27Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I particularly wonder about **Mahaloth** , whose reaction to **Spurious** ’ comment about “The List” went from “it’s cool” (post 162) to voting for him in post 166. And now, with **Spurious** comfortably in the lead, he has unvoted him and voted for someone who formerly had no votes; this would be consistent with the actions of scum trying to get someone lynched without having to have his name in the final vote count. Yes, I thought about if I should change my vote and ultimately, it just came down to the fact that I think lynching the guy with **Zero Posts** is a pretty good way to vote on Day One, as we are taking a stab in the dark. Is Spurious comfotably in the lead with 18 people in the game and about 7-8 votes? I still think voting for the guy who hasn’t posted in the game yet might be the most popular idea. 1. The reason I said, “It’s cool” in post 164(not 162) was because I was trying to be nice. I changed my mind because I realized he had executed someone when I really think we should ostracize people. 2. You do know that I was talking about “lynch the lurker” for quite a while as my top choice, before I voted to ostracize Spurious. I admitted that I talked myself back to that theory when I lynched Captain Pinkies. As for Captain Pinkies and Angel of the North, it’s basically 0 posts for Captain Pinkies(who only posted to sign up) and 3 posts for Angel(excluding his original sign up). I actually am not against voting Angel, either, as he is quite low in participation. I just chose the guy with zero posts vs. 3. 1. By the way, the odds are that Spurious, if killed/ostracized, will show up town. If there are 4 scum, there are 14 townies. We are voting with nearly zero info., right? Anyway, what do other people think about voting for the lurker? ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/220 "2009-04-30T20:11:32Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Ah, finally we have some votes to analyze, recriminations flying back and forth. Good times.😃 > > **Chronos’** plan was bold, audacious and weird. My first instinct was to vote for him straight away for proposing an alliance with non-Town elements. After further thought, though, I found it hard to see scum motivation for proposing a plan whose first step was that all the scum should identify themselves! I would like to hear from the **Chronos** voters exactly why they thought this seemed scummy. (The plan itself, of course, now seems fatally flawed by subsequent rule clarifications) I think this is a key point. I’d happily go alone with Chronos’s plan for a day or so :-P. An anti town plan that, if abandoned partway through, gives the game to the town isn’t really all that suspicious. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > 1. He says he is “a fan of bandwagons”. :dubious: Really? The only people I know who like bandwagons for their own sake are scum who see them as easy ways to eliminate Townies. I definitely would like to hear some clarification on this point, **Spurious.** I would also like to hear from **Telcontar** why this remark didn’t get a vote from him, but he did vote for **Nanook** for saying (admittedly without explanation) that _this particular_ bandwagon seemed “decent”. I didn’t take spurious’s comment all that seriously: > [@Spurious\_George](#): > > I’m nothing if not a fan of bandwagons, and I don’t want to be the Sinner who casts the last stone, so… My read is that he has a sense of humor. I interpreted this more to mean “I agree with what’s been said” rather than bandwagoning for it’s own sake. Spurious is talking very casually. This leaves a lot of places one can nitpick but the fact that EVERYTHING out of his mouth is casual leads me to not worry too much about it, for today at least. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > However, for my first vote, I am going to have to follow through with my threat from yesterday. I don’t think we can allow people to get away with editing posts, because it potentially deprives us of the ability to spot scum slips. I reserve the right to change my mind if someone else looks genuinely suspicious, but for now This is a really silly criteria to use. fairly new player edited a post to change a color _at the start of the game_. It was a mistake, but I imagine **Angel** gets that by now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=12)