# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/261 "2009-05-01T15:49:05Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t know, it seems pretty arbitrary to just say that editing is anti Town–why would anyone do it knowingly (i.e., not by slip up)? No one wants to look anti Town on purpose. It’s not like scum have to show a certain number of tells that they use up by editing t heir posts. You’d think scum would if anything try harder NOT to edit. or Scum would make an early edit of something minor in order to set a precident for editing. I’m not saying that this is what happened. I’m just puzzled myself as to why a Town player would make an edit. Especially one well versed in not editing. Especially after a discusssion of why editing is bad and why it is Anti-Town. You argument seems along the lines of “Scum wouldn’t do that.” I don’t buy into that. I see no motivation for an experienced Town player to edit a post at that point. I do see a motivation for a Scum player to do so. Right now, I don’t see as much Scum motivation for any other behaviors, so that is where my vote is. > [@Telcontar](#): > > This is mafia, not the f-ing common law. do you honestly think that angel’s color change was part of a scum plot to legitimize editing, or is this just your way of trying to ensure that our first kill is someone not-you? This is mafia. Can you show me anyone acting in a more anti-Town fashion or someone acting with more posuitives for Scum? No, there’s no rule against editing in this game. Does that make editing a pro-Town behavior? There’s also no rule against spamming the board with useless information to bury any discussion. Does that make it pro-Town? There’s no rule against excessive lurking. Does that make it pro-Town? There’s no rule against voting without giving a reason. Does that make it pro-town? There are certain things which are anti-Town. Editing your posts is one. Additionally, Angel has admitted to skimming, since she saw no discussion of editing posts. That’s another anti-Town action. My vote stands. Am I certain she is Scum? No. How could I be. Is she the player I see acting in the most anti-Town way with possible Scum motivation? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/262 "2009-05-01T15:52:23Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’m sorry. I’m not AngelOfNorth’s advocate, but I think you might be pushing it a bit by saying he deliberately tried to set a precedent for editing. Perhaps I overstated it. I can’t be certain what her motivation may have been. But I do see a possible Scum motivation for making an edit. The possible Scum motivation is to set a precedent for editing in this game. Allowing editing will benefit Scum, not Town. I see no possible Town benefit for editing a post, especially one so insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/263 "2009-05-01T16:03:35Z")
I don’t think we should edit posts. Just that a little slip up definitely isn’t necessarily a tell. I do think we need to make it clear that future editing will be seen as anti-Town in the future, but I’ve definitely done it in the past just because I forgot, not because I was trying to sneak in any information (like, you know, making a typo or something). ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/264 "2009-05-01T16:04:20Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Should have read that it was ill-advised in this game? What I read was the MODERATOR saying it was okay. So you thought it was OK because the mod said so, and you apparently missed the several posts **special ed** pointed out where people said not to do it. But despite the fact you thought it was OK, once you did it, you immediately posted again to apologize. My vote is so standing. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/265 "2009-05-01T16:15:10Z")
And WRT to Angel’s case against me: I had already explained in detail my thinking that we didn’t have enough information to make an informed opinion about the E/O issue. I think too many people on this game are jumping into an “OMG we should never execute anyone!” mindset. I don’t think Ped would have designed a game that has two kinds of lynches, one of which is always preferable. Why is making a random decision a bad way to decide between two options that you have insufficient information to choose between on their merits? Moreover, even if it is a bad way to make a decision, why does that merit a vote? Do you think that I am scum who has some secret information that makes me want to ostracize people rather than execute them, so I came up with the “coin flip” to not have to justify that decision? Despite the fact that although people have gotten all kinds of heat for voting to execute, nobody has yet directed so much at a peep about the several people, including you, you have voted to ostracize without explaining why? What is the possible scum motivation you are seeing there? **Mahaloth** , T **elcontar** , and **Spurious** , thank you for your responses to my questions yesterday; they all seem quite reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/266 "2009-05-01T16:15:48Z")
I’m sorry, I still haven’t figured out how to work the quote thing properly. Special Ed, can you show me where I admitted to skimming? I don’t think you can, because I did not respond to that accusation. I will now, though-- I am having trouble with the mechanics of the board and I have missed some posts. Regardless, I will not edit a post again and I didn’t do it to set a precedent the first time. Btw, I’m a she. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/267 "2009-05-01T16:16:24Z")
NETA: should be “including you,\* who\* have voted to ostracize without explaining why?” ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/268 "2009-05-01T16:19:17Z")
There is a quote button on the bottom right side of every post. Clicking it brings up a new screen with that post in italics, surrounded by the markers > [@](#): > > and . Underneath it, you can add your comments. If you are responding to a long post, you can delete the irrelevant parts, but be sure to leave the ending [/QUOTE] in or it won’t work properly. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/269 "2009-05-01T16:21:17Z")
Sigh. Still not editing to add… …in italics, surrounded by the markers [QU_OTE] and [/QUO_TE], except without the asterixs. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/270 "2009-05-01T16:29:52Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Sigh. Still not editing to add… > > …in italics, surrounded by the markers [QU_OTE] and [/QUO_TE], except without the asterixs. Thanks, Thing Fish. I voted to ostracize because of the comment earlier that ostracizing is better than execution if we’re not sure of alignment because if the player is a good guy then (s)he (am I the only she in this game?) can still use his/her night powers. So that’s why I’m suspicious of you for voting to execute. My alignment is not known, so I feel only a Blackheart would vote to execute in the hopes of hitting some power roles. Especially because I was also accused previously of being a lurker. While I do believe in provoking lurkers to get them respond, it’s also been my experience that on Day One, inexperienced power roles often lurk because they are afraid of being uncovered. Special Ed is right that I’m not exactly inexperienced, but most of you wouldn’t have known that. However, my suspicion of you is minor. I’m in the habit of laying down a vote early to see what comes of it. That doesn’t mean my vote will stay on you. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/271 "2009-05-01T16:34:19Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > I’m sorry, I still haven’t figured out how to work the quote thing properly. Special Ed, can you show me where I admitted to skimming? I don’t think you can, because I did not respond to that accusation. I will now, though-- I am having trouble with the mechanics of the board and I have missed some posts. > > Regardless, I will not edit a post again and I didn’t do it to set a precedent the first time. > > Btw, I’m a she. OK, so you didn’t admit to skiiming, but you did imply it by omission. And, well, now you’ve admitted it, though you’re saying it was through error and not intentional. In any case, I see you’ve denied what I’ve put out as your potential mtivation for editing, but you’ll have to forgive me for not trusting you completely. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/272 "2009-05-01T16:42:16Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > This is mafia, not the f-ing common law. If you don’t mind, can I use that in my sig? ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/273 "2009-05-01T16:44:27Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, so you didn’t admit to skiiming, but you did imply it by omission. > > And, well, now you’ve admitted it, though you’re saying it was through error and not intentional. > > In any case, I see you’ve denied what I’ve put out as your potential mtivation for editing, but you’ll have to forgive me for not trusting you completely. No worries on the not trusting me, I just don’t like having words put in my mouth. That is usually a scum tell. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/274 "2009-05-01T16:46:21Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > As for E vs O, let’s look at what we know and can guess > > Pro O arguments: > \*No Seed of Sin > \*If Powered Town is ostracised, they can still use their powers at Night. This is highly significant, as powers and numbers are the only two advantages town has. > \*It wouldn’t surprise me if there is a way to bring ostracized players back. Pure speculation on my part, but I wouldn’t put it past **ped** to come up with something like that. Since we will find out a player’s alignment on ostracising, we would not bring back scum. If you think this is an unlikely speculation, fair enough, so do I. > > Pro E arguments: > \*Powered scum are unable to return/use powers. If a scum returns, what would be the big deal? We’d kill them nice and proper. And we don’t even know that scum _have_ powers, or if they are worth worrying about. > > I want to reiterate a point: **powers and numbers are the only two advantages town has**. Destroying power roles through simple mistakes or bad lucks is not pro-town. I think this is probably the comment Angel is referring to, and I had wanted to address it earlier, actually. I think this whole post makes a bunch of assumptions that there is no good evidence for. Although we can safely assume that numbers are a Town advantage, we can’t assume that powers are. There have been several games on this board where every player had a power role. If there is a way to bring ostracized players back (a possibility which hadn’t occurred to me but which certainly might be the case) we don’t know that it is Town who has that power. It is certainly the case that based on what we now know, ostracism seems clearly preferable to execution. I think the likeliest conclusion to reach from that is that there is probably significant information we don’t know! After further thought, I have come to the conclusion that it is probably best after all for us to ostracize today; since that is the option we seem to know less about, it makes sense to start our information gathering there. But I do think we should probably also execute someone within the first few Days as well; my gut feeling is that each method probably favors one scum faction over the other, and by restricting ourselves to one, we may be enabling one faction to grow too powerful to stop. The point **Angel** makes about Blackhearts wanting to execute in hopes of hitting Town power roles hadn’t occured to me; I assumed people were thinking that execution voters were Sinners looking to get an extra infection! Just goes to show how little we know at this point… ---
**Author:** ![Spurious\_George](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Spurious\_George](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spurious_George)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/275 "2009-05-01T16:48:26Z")
Seed question, just cause I thought tof it. Player A: Execute Target Player B: Execute Target Player C: Execute Target Player D: Execute Target Player D: UnExecute Target Player D: Ostracize Target The Target is Executed. Who gets the seed of Sin? Player C or D? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/276 "2009-05-01T16:53:25Z")
And what happens if Player C also does an unexecute? I foresee a lot of last minute vote changing. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/277 "2009-05-01T17:12:40Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, so you didn’t admit to skiiming, but you did imply it by omission. > > And, well, now you’ve admitted it, though you’re saying it was through error and not intentional. > > In any case, I see you’ve denied what I’ve put out as your potential mtivation for editing, but you’ll have to forgive me for not trusting you completely. unvote of the north vote O special ed You seem dead set on finding fault with **angel,** a player who is new to this format of mafia and whose only definite mistake is format related. Your justification skips around a fair bit. You start with the color edit, then state that she said she was skimming, then you have to admit that she didn’t while, at the same time, claiming that her new post did contain such an admission, even though it didn’t (she said she’s having some trouble with the board and missed a few posts, not that she’s willfully being a bad townie. Quite a difference there). Silly grudges are anti-town. > [@pedescribe](#): > > If you don’t mind, can I use that in my sig? Sure, go ahead 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/278 "2009-05-01T17:19:04Z")
[quote=“Spurious\_George, post:275, topic:494271”] Seed question, just cause I thought tof it. Player A: Execute Target Player B: Execute Target Player C: Execute Target Player D: Execute Target Player D: UnExecute Target Player D: Ostracize Target The Target is Executed. Who gets the seed of Sin? Player C or D?/QUOTE] C ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/279 "2009-05-01T17:28:39Z")
Quoth **paulwhoisaghost** : > [@](#): > > Two things here… one… just because the method SpurGe chose to vote isn’t the most popular one does not mean that his vote was a “less pro-town lynch option” for all you know he may have some kind of power that can cancel out the Seed of Sin. Making it less of an issue for him. That’s why I said _apparently_ less pro-town. We know of a downside to the Town of voting execute; we do not know of a downside to the Town of voting ostracize. Sure, maybe there is a Townie with a special power that makes that player Sin-proof, but we don’t know that, and therefore we should be suspicious of someone acting in an apparently sinful manner. Now, it may eventually happen that someone is suspected of having a Scum power role, and if that happens, then yes, absolutely we should consider Execution. And there is surely information that we don’t have, as **Thing Fish** points out (it wouldn’t be much of a game otherwise). But we can’t make decisions based on that information until we know what that information is. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/280 "2009-05-01T17:56:50Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > You seem dead set on finding fault with **angel,** a player who is new to this format of mafia and whose only definite mistake is format related. Wrong, I’m not dead set on finding fault with her. I pointed out what I saw as a behavior with pro-Scum motivation and voted accordingly. > [@Telcontar](#): > > Your justification skips around a fair bit. You start with the color edit, then state that she said she was skimming, then you have to admit that she didn’t while, at the same time, claiming that her new post did contain such an admission, even though it didn’t (she said she’s having some trouble with the board and missed a few posts, not that she’s willfully being a bad townie. Quite a difference there). Wrong again, I voted for the edit. This is true. Then when she came back and defended herself, it was apparent that she’d missed the posts where the anti-Town aspect of editing was discussed. > [@angel](#): > > Should have read that it was ill-advised in this game? What I read was the MODERATOR saying it was okay. Then, I acused her of skimming. (notice I even put a question mark at the end?) > [@Me](#): > > so, you skimmed the parts where we discussed the fact while editing was allowed, it was certainly going to be viewed as anti-Town? (see posts 97, 104, 107, 111) Most of these right about the same time you started positng in posts 101 and 102 and before you edited post 123. Then, she replied and didn’t deny skimming. > [@Angel](#): > > Should have read that it was ill-advised in this game? What I read was the MODERATOR saying it was okay. I mistaken looked at that as an admission of skimming. Angel pointed out my mistake, while admitting to having skimmed through no fault of her own. > [@Angel](#): > > I’m sorry, I still haven’t figured out how to work the quote thing properly. Special Ed, can you show me where I admitted to skimming? I don’t think you can, because I did not respond to that accusation. I will now, though-- I am having trouble with the mechanics of the board and I have missed some posts. (underlining mine) I admitted to my mistake > [@Me](#): > > OK, so you didn’t admit to skiiming, but you did imply it by omission. I also see where you get the impression that I’m going after her. It was this well place smudge. > [@Angel](#): > > And Special Ed always thinks I’m scum. In fact, at this point if he didn’t vote me on Day One I’d be suspicious of him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=15)