# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Captain\_Pinkies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Captain\_Pinkies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Pinkies)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/301 "2009-05-01T21:05:49Z")
I am in favor of Ostracize people this early in the game… So the question becomes whom to ostracize… I can see voting for Angel for editing, as in principal editing is bad and she should know better!!! But given it is not disallowed and it was a formating thing, I am willing to let it slide… I can see voting Bill, but he posted a message that r/l is getting in the way of participation until tomorrow… So I am going to go back and re-read this format takes some getting used to… VOTE to Ostracize ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/302 "2009-05-01T21:54:52Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > :not game related post: > > 1. Click User CP in the upper left corner. > > 2. Click Edit Options on the left. > > 3. Scroll down to “Thread Display” and choose “Show Signatures” > > Is this what you needed? > > :end non-game related post: Well Mahaloth, I mean it was YOUR haggle comment that I needed to quote. right? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/303 "2009-05-01T22:35:58Z")
> [@Spurious\_George](#): > > This math doesn’t add up, it should be E (2) and O (9). Oh dear, you are correct! Vote Count: AngeloftheNorth (3): Special Ed, Spurious George, Thing Fish Spurious George (4): Chronos, AllWalker, Joey P., Nanook Chronos (2): Meeko, Freudian Slit Special Ed (1): Telcontar Captain Pinkies (1): Mahaloth E (2): Spurious George, Meeko O (10): Special Ed, Chronos, AllWalker, Mahaloth, Joey P., nanook, Telcontar, Freudian Slit, Thing Fish, Captain Pinkies ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/304 "2009-05-01T22:51:05Z")
**Vote to Ostracize Spurious George** because of his vote to execute. My reasoning for being against execution has already been explained. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/305 "2009-05-01T22:59:50Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > Well obviously i think you’re the most suspicious. Your case is weak and your arguments fairly nonsensical. I think that means that you just want blood and don’t care whether what looks like a scum tell on the surface is actually a scum tell. Well, OK. Don’t expect me to buy into that case, because I know better 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Pinkies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Captain\_Pinkies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Pinkies)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/306 "2009-05-02T02:08:58Z")
in my opinion, the scummiest thing is voting to execute verse ostracize (at this stage of the game)… That mean a choice between Spurious George orMeeko given that this is day one either is a good choice… so… Vote: Spurious George ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/307 "2009-05-02T02:31:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Pinkies](#): > > in my opinion, the scummiest thing is voting to execute verse ostracize (at this stage of the game)… That mean a choice between Spurious George orMeeko given that this is day one either is a good choice… so… > > Vote: Spurious George Bleached. Vote ostracize, right? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/308 "2009-05-02T02:35:20Z")
Please note this: > [@pede](#): > > Also, on lynching. There are two ways to lynch: Ostricization and Execution. If the town ostracizes a player, there’s a chance that that person might ignore the order and do something that night, but it is the morally appropriate way of clensing the town. Execution ensures that the target won’t come back, but as killing is always sinful, the last player to vote for the execution is infected with the seed of sin. followed by this question: > [@Thing Fish](#): > > Ped, am I correct in assuming that ostracized players may use their night action the night after being ostracized, but are then totally out of the game? > [@pede](#): > > Depending. with BillMc questioning that > [@BillMc](#): > > Can you give us some examples? I hate to play guess the rules unanswered and these questions from Angel with their answers > [@pede](#): > > [Quote=AngeloftheNorth] > > Pedescribe, if praying doesn’t restrict in any way, then what’s the purpose of it? I can’t answer that, as it would unduly alter the gamestate. [Quote=AngeloftheNorth] If the person infected by the Seed of Sin is lynched before the prayer period is up, is their alignment upon death Sinner? [/quote] No. It will show as Impure Town, whether or not they were trying to become pure again. [Quote=AngeloftheNorth] And if they’re NKed by Blackhearts, does the praying action have any affect on that? [/quote] No. You can’t pray yourself back to life. [/quote] some questions from me > [@pede](#): > > [Quote=special ed] > > 1. Can the Sinner tempts the Blackhearts? > 2. If so, can the Blackhearts pray to avoid becoming sinners? > 3. Can the Blackhearts become Sinners through the last to vote to execute rule? > 4. Is it possible for more than 1 faction to win this game? 1. If a Blackheart is previously non-sinned, he can be ensinned. However, this would not change his or her win condition. 2. If a previously pure Blackheart was infected, then yes, that player could pray. 3. If previously uninfected, they could get infected in this manner, but it would not change their win condition. 4. No. [/quote] my question for the Town: Where did we get the idea that an Ostracized person will just go away? What we know [ol] [li]An Ostracized person may chooose to IGNORE town and perform ‘an action’ that Night[/li][li]We don’t know what action that is, and if it’s a regular action or if it’s a special action by an ostracized person[/li][li]We don’t even know if they die. Nothing even says they won’t continue playing the next Day if they so choose.[/li][li]Town do not appear to become Sinners. That is, they won’t be involved in the tempting or perhaps know who the Sinners are, but they’ll be placing their bets on the Sinners and perhaps using their powers to try to aid them.[/li][/ol] I think we’re hung up on the fact that Pede said there were 2 ways to lynch. It appears to me that the 2 types include Execution, which is a standard lynching and Ostracization, which is almost an option lynching which can be ignored. Am I way off base here? I think I’m missing something. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/309 "2009-05-02T02:41:38Z")
Can you vote on yourself? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/310 "2009-05-02T02:43:28Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Can you vote on yourself? _blinks_ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/311 "2009-05-02T02:48:32Z")
Yes, specialed, I took Ped to mean that Ostracization was essentially a slightly risky, delayed removal of the game. The “slight risk”, in my interpretation, is that the scum(if we are lucky and get a scum out) could carry out their Nighttime power role. I know we don’t know for sure, but this was my initial grasp of the concept and why I chose ostraciation over execution. No risk of sin-infection vs. risk of power role being used at night time. I do think they “die”(leave the game), though. Hey, what does your point #4 mean? I don’t understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/312 "2009-05-02T02:49:22Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Can you vote on yourself? Technically, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/313 "2009-05-02T02:49:34Z")
Meeko, why do you ask about voting for yourself? I think you can, by the way, but Ped will have to approve. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/314 "2009-05-02T02:55:30Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Yes, specialed, I took Ped to mean that Ostracization was essentially a slightly risky, delayed removal of the game. > > The “slight risk”, in my interpretation, is that the scum(if we are lucky and get a scum out) could carry out their Nighttime power role. > > I know we don’t know for sure, but this was my initial grasp of the concept and why I chose ostraciation over execution. > > No risk of sin-infection vs. risk of power role being used at night time. > > I do think they “die”(leave the game), though. > > Hey, what does your point #4 mean? I don’t understand it. Are we just assuming death or removal from the game, however? Am I missing where that is stated clearly? point 4 means that if infected, Town can choose to align their win condition with the Sinners. I assume that the Sinners have a thread in which to discuss who to infect, strategy, etc. We doin’t have information that an infected Townie will join that discussion. We also have no indication that an infected Townie will lose their powers. \*\* pede, if Town votes to Ostracize someone: [ol] [li]Will that player be removed from gameplay becuase of the Ostracization?[/li][li]Will that player be able to indefinitely avoid being removed from the game until another lynching or killing action is performed upon him/her?[/li][li]Will that player gain an additional Night Action power that is available to them because of the Ostracization?[/li][/ol]\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/315 "2009-05-02T02:57:27Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Are we just assuming death or removal from the game, however? Am I missing where that is stated clearly? > > point 4 means that if infected, Town can choose to align their win condition with the Sinners. I assume that the Sinners have a thread in which to discuss who to infect, strategy, etc. We doin’t have information that an infected Townie will join that discussion. We also have no indication that an infected Townie will lose their powers. > > \*\* > pede, if Town votes to Ostracize someone: > [ol] > [li]Will that player be removed from gameplay becuase of the Ostracization?[/li][li]Will that player be able to indefinitely avoid being removed from the game until another lynching or killing action is performed upon him/her?[/li][li]Will that player gain an additional Night Action power that is available to them because of the Ostracization?[/li][/ol]\*\* 1-3. I will not answer those questions, as they would unduly alter the gamestate. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/316 "2009-05-02T03:03:59Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > 1-3. I will not answer those questions, as they would unduly alter the gamestate. Oh, you always say that! 🙂 \*\* Meeko\*\*, why do you want to vote for yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/317 "2009-05-02T03:08:45Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Oh, you always say that! 🙂 > \*\* > Meeko\*\*, why do you want to vote for yourself? 1. Exactly. Ped won’t answer speculative question, as that takes the fun out of it. 2. I wouldn’t assume Meeko wants to vote for himself. He may have some other reason to ask. Meeko, if you do want out, you can get a sub. Scum or not, you really should get a sub if you want out. Please, stay, though. You are fun in games like this and Haggle. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/318 "2009-05-02T03:17:01Z")
Here’s an idea: we vote to ostracize, see if anything “unusual” happens ie, anything more than just a Night power, as in they vote in the next lynching or whatever, and take it from there. My interpretation: Ostracizing: removes player from discussions and voting, but can still use Night powers Execution: removes player from discussions and voting and denies use of Night powers. Let’s assume this is how it works until shown otherwise. Ped wont answer any of these questions, so we’ll have to find it out for ourselves. Speculation is fun, but let’s see if we can gather any evidence to back up any of it. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/319 "2009-05-02T03:17:24Z")
OK, so do we have any indication that an Ostracization is anything more than asking a player to kindly leave the game? I mean, if it can be ignored… From all the evidence, it seems that executing is lynching as we know it, and Ostracization is something all together different, and may or may not be effective. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/320 "2009-05-02T03:19:55Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Here’s an idea: we vote to ostracize, see if anything “unusual” happens ie, anything more than just a Night power, as in they vote in the next lynching or whatever, and take it from there. How will we know what happens? How can we trust the person we Ostracize? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=17)