# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/341 "2009-05-02T04:15:54Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Alright…when you give it a reason… > > If the person about to be executed voluntarily commits the act himself, he would be tainted, with no way to remove it or act on it…furthemore, he would have no opportunity to decide his fate. > > Meaning, he would die, **and his win condition would change as if he had embraced the Sin**. NETA: This is assuming that the player dying is a PPT (previously pure townie). ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/342 "2009-05-02T04:19:42Z")
**If we Ostracize a Sinner, Do they become Pure?** **Can we vote to Execute Pede… nevermind** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/343 "2009-05-02T04:22:13Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > NETA: This is assuming that the player dying is a PPT (previously pure townie). This is getting even more sideways. \*\* What happens if a Sinner becomes Ensinned? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/344 "2009-05-02T04:25:46Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > This is getting even more sideways. > \*\* > What happens if a Sinner becomes Ensinned? \*\* What happens if someone that get’s ensinned and pray’s, get’s ensinned again the next day. Would they then have to pray 3 nights in a row? If they decided to join the sinners would they officially become a sinner after the second night, but before the third night? If someone get’s ensinned, can they decide during the day between the two nights to join the sinners and not pray the second night? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/345 "2009-05-02T04:26:47Z")
NETA, I guess on that first question, it should probably be, Would they have to pray three nights in a row, or four, or is the original two still sufficiant. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/346 "2009-05-02T04:34:21Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > **If we Ostracize a Sinner, Do they become Pure?** The rules do not address it. > [@Meeko](#): > > **Can we vote to Execute Pede… nevermind** 😉 You can try. But given that we need someone to run this, and half the rules are not yet written down anywhere but my brain (sorry Hoopy!)…well…I wouldn’t, if I were you. > [@Meeko](#): > > This is getting even more sideways. > \*\* > What happens if a Sinner becomes Ensinned? \*\* Nothing in particular. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > What happens if someone that get’s ensinned and pray’s, get’s ensinned again the next day. Would they then have to pray 3 nights in a row? > If they decided to join the sinners would they officially become a sinner after the second night, but before the third night? > If someone get’s ensinned, can they decide during the day between the two nights to join the sinners and not pray the second night? 1. 3 to get pure. 2. They would never ‘offically become a sinner’. But they would become **aligned with the sinners** immediately. 3. No. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/347 "2009-05-02T04:36:40Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Nope! But I will read the Haggle thread now… owowow my brain is breaking. And I’m on page 6…☹ ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/348 "2009-05-02T04:54:22Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > owowow my brain is breaking. And I’m on page 6…☹ So you saw my comment on " **Your brain will melt**" correct? Did you not believe me? Didn’t a fellow Mafia player confirm This? NAF no less? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/349 "2009-05-02T04:55:53Z")
Quoth **Meeko** > [@](#): > > Heh. You know, I just might be able to get this game going sideways yet. What, my plan that you found scummy wasn’t sideways enough? (and yes, I have since come to the conclusion that it wouldn’t work, based on **pedescribe** ’s F4s). And let me just say, I have no idea what side **Meeko** is on, or whether his sidewaysness is to the advantage of Town, but it certainly is making things more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/350 "2009-05-02T05:02:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And let me just say, I have no idea what side **Meeko** is on, or whether his sidewaysness is to the advantage of Town, but it certainly is making things more fun. \*\*UnExecute Chronos \*\* \*\* Ostracize Spurious George \*\* Are we clear on that, Chronos? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/351 "2009-05-02T05:06:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And let me just say, I have no idea what side **Meeko** is on, or whether his sidewaysness is to the advantage of Town, but it certainly is making things more fun. That’s what confusing, since we have three sides, his plan, while pro-town, is equally pro-scum, since they are also playing against the sinners. So voting for yourself is helpful to your cause be it town or scum (and really I don’t think it’ll do anything at all if you’re a sinner) it’s kind of a null-tell. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/352 "2009-05-02T05:18:04Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That’s what confusing, since we have three sides, his plan, while pro-town, is equally pro-scum, since they are also playing against the sinners. So voting for yourself is helpful to your cause be it town or scum (and really I don’t think it’ll do anything at all if you’re a sinner) it’s kind of a null-tell. My work here is done.\* \*I’m still playing, but, Joey is playing it more sideways that I can right now. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/353 "2009-05-02T13:53:56Z")
Pede, youve started the forbidden thread. Sounds scary. \*\* I’m guessing Im not gonna look in there.\*\* \*\* What is it exactly? Where are we in our game because of it now? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/354 "2009-05-02T13:56:04Z")
Meeko, I think the forbidden thread started pretty much when the game began. It is where the dead(or ostracized perhaps\*) go to communicate about the game and it is naturally, forbidden for us to look at. \*I say perhaps since we still aren’t 100% clear if ostracization is total removal from the game. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/355 "2009-05-02T13:57:37Z")
Well I mean I can guess by context “Forbidden” means that we can’t look at it. But I mean, it is like the back of the book, right? For answers turn to page XXX ? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/356 "2009-05-02T13:57:58Z")
By the way Meeko, were about 26 hours away from the end of Day One, if my information is correct. Someone dies/gets ostracized tomorrow(Sunday) at Noon, so our votes have to be final and turned in before then. We use the message board clock, I believe. In the Werewolf game, one player voted at 12:01 on the board clock, and it did not count. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/357 "2009-05-02T14:03:53Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > By the way Meeko, were about 26 hours away from the end of Day One, if my information is correct. > > Someone dies/gets ostracized tomorrow(Sunday) at Noon, so our votes have to be final and turned in before then. We use the message board clock, I believe. Mahaloth: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11098253&postcount=350](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11098253&postcount=350) No real reason to still back Chronos if he admits his idea is moot. Untill we get this thing wide open, I think it truly will be blind leading the blind. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/358 "2009-05-02T14:04:54Z")
NETA : I will be away from my computer for MOST of the day today, My D&D group is meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/359 "2009-05-02T14:07:44Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Well I mean I can guess by context “Forbidden” means that we can’t look at it. > > But I mean, it is like the back of the book, right? For answers turn to page XXX ? No, that’s the spoilers thread which should be on a another message board all together. The forbidden thread is a mix of dead people from here and other onlookers that are, for lack of a better term, playing from home/following along. There usually isn’t info in there that could win the game for you (but there can be). It’s more like someone from the crowd yelling out the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/360 "2009-05-02T15:26:04Z")
Thank God I subbed in early. At least this game thread is still of a manageable size. Nothing really jumped out at me early. I’m definitely for ostracizing over executing. Maybe it’s just because I’ve never played in a game with a cult before, but the Sinners scare me more than the scum because I know all kinds of techniques for tracking down scum but it’s a lot harder to apply them to recruits(the difficult part is that you don’t _when_ the recruit changed alignments, so you don’t know when to start looking for tells). Besides, I think people are way too worried about a single night action from a hypothetical anti-town player. What’s the absolute worst power they could have? A bonus night-kill? That costs us 0.5 of a mislynch. And you can be sure that the scum won’t have more than one bonus kill(and could easily have none), so we pay that 0.5 of an extra mislynch _once_. A successful execution of a Sinner, on the other hand, is equivalent to a full mislynch if the Sinners get a successful recruitment out of the deal. If we execute a non-sinner, it’s even worse than a full mislynch because we’ve decreased the number of non-Sinners and increased the number of Sinners. And this can happen on _every_ execution. In the absence of a compelling reason to execute, we have to default to ostracism. Also, I’ve seen the town make an assumption that I think is invalid. It seems that most of you are assuming that the scum might have power roles but the Sinners won’t. I see no reason to make that assumption. Finally, I’d like to remind everybody that because we’re in a three faction game, that we have to be careful in adjusting our thinking to account for this. If a player votes for a Sinner, this is not a solely pro-Town move: it’s also pro-scum. The same goes for a vote for scum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=19)