# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/741 "2009-05-06T22:55:31Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I don’t know who is making the power up, > > But on what planet is “Random Sinfection” a even remotely coherent trade off for Tracking?! > > Makes no sense to me, at all. On the planet where I have the chance of seeing someone target someone else and that player ending up dead, or having their vote bought, or some other action that hands us scum… And besides, it randomly sinfects someone, but I was also given the power to remove that. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/742 "2009-05-06T23:08:40Z")
(blinks) Wow. I am 241 posts behind and my time to play will be limited for a week or so. I will try to catch up and post something! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/743 "2009-05-06T23:10:44Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I was just thinking that after claiming and then seeing your post… I didn’t think anyone was gonna help me counter the accusations 😛 You weren’t very patient. You had 3 people voting for you. There were many more people _not_ voting for you. You should have given time for people to talk things through. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/744 "2009-05-06T23:11:07Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > You know what… fuck it.. there really is no point in trying to keep anything hidden any longer.. You guys fucked up my whole game plan so all I can do now is hope to God we have some sort of protection role cuz otherwise my ass is definitely dead Tonight. > > So here you go you fuckin vampires… > > Last Night I chose to follow Special Ed. > > I breadcrumbed this when I posted that Ed was really boring this game. > > And there you have it.. now you know everything I know. > > So there ARE at least 2 sinfected. I wanted to know who so that I would at least have the option of removing the seed from them… although the cost of a post restriction is a bit high… > > and since I just role claimed I will say that I was going to try to take advantage of something that I think Pede overlooked. He didn’t put any restrictions on the killing aspect of my role. So once half of the players remaining are infected I was going to kill everyone but myself and have town win. 😛 Paul…the post above says you would have the seed of sin if you used the Daykill. Technically you’d be a Sinner then so the Sinners would win. I tend to believe your claims. But I’m not sure now if I was sinfected by you or the Sinners. My PM doesn’t preclude either possibility. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/745 "2009-05-06T23:12:05Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, if you’re causing people to become sinfected, then yeah, we do want you outed. That’s kind of the point of the game. NO, the point of the game is to kill the Blackhearts while avoiding being recruited to the Sinner’s win condition. Unless you’re on one of those sides, then you’re win condition is obviously different. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/746 "2009-05-06T23:13:32Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > I don’t believe the claim. A tracker is a pretty weak investigative role(that’s what his third claimed power is). The power is actively anti-town when it recruits a random member of the Town to the Sinners. Why would pedescribe give an anti-town power to a townie? That recruitment can be refused! It’s more of an opportunity than a recruitment, really. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/747 "2009-05-06T23:13:52Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > NO, the point of the game is to kill the Blackhearts while avoiding being recruited to the Sinner’s win condition. > > Unless you’re on one of those sides, then you’re win condition is obviously different. So? Getting rid of sinners would also help us because we don’t want to be infected with the seed of sin. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/748 "2009-05-06T23:15:12Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > On the side: > > This is the exact reason I LOVE haggle. I can do next to anything, at next to any point in the game. Despite your wildest wishes. This is not haggle. The game plays on a completely different basic set of assumptions ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/749 "2009-05-06T23:16:45Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > I get that there are ways to undo the recruitment, like prayer. Sorry for being imprecise, but I was trying to be brief. I’m at work and don’t have a lot of time for posting. I maintain that your claimed ability is anti-town. > > Furthermore, yesterDay you were making up outlandish possible downsides to ostracism, trying to convince the Town to execute instead. You seem very interested in making sure that people are infected with the Seed of Sin. I think that you’re a Sinner. Wow, lots of posts, I should probably read them all before commenting. But I won’t Point, Rysto ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/750 "2009-05-06T23:17:58Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > And yesterday I was coming up with CREATIVE possible downsides to ostracism.. not outlandish… and the reason why is because I knew that I could counteract the downside to Execution… no one had any clue what would happen as a result of Ostracism. Point, paul ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/751 "2009-05-06T23:19:33Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > No, you can’t. You have to choose. Either you have the town win condition or the sinner win condition(or Blackheart win condition). I believe this to be incorrect. You can get the seed of sin, and pray, thereby refusing the Sinner’s win condition. But does that remove the seed of sin? I don’t see that. You are a Townie with the seed of Sin. Imagine the Sinners more as mad bombers than a Cult. ONly people can opt to join them if they so desire. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/752 "2009-05-06T23:21:38Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I don’t know who is making the power up, > > But on what planet is “Random Sinfection” a even remotely coherent trade off for Tracking?! > > Makes no sense to me, at all. point, meeko (I didn’t think I’d ever say that) ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/753 "2009-05-06T23:25:28Z")
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Again… and again and again and again and again. Receiving the seed of sin does not mean I would become a Sinner. And because there is no limitation on my daykill power, I could technically Daykill every player but myself. That would cause me to receive to the Seed of sin, but the town would have won. Yes, the sinners would also win… but who gives a shit? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/754 "2009-05-06T23:28:00Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Paul…the post above says you would have the seed of sin if you used the Daykill. Technically you’d be a Sinner then so the Sinners would win. Technically, he would an impure Townie, not a Sinner. See, I think we have these types of players: 1. Blackhearts 2. Sinners 3. Pure Townies, never infected with the seed of sin 4. Impure Townies, Town players who have been infected with the seed of Sin, but have refused to accept the win condition. They have the seed of sin, but have prayed or otherwise had it’s effect neutralized. BUt they are no longer pure. They have the Town win condition. 5. Town who have accepted the Sinner’s win condition. They are still Town. They are not pure. They win with the Sinners. Now, as to category 5. I’m not sure we can call them Sinners, because there is no solid indication they join the Sinners. (i.e., there’s no sign they get to be in their thread or other decision making. They are just aligned with them). Blackhearts win when they outnumber 2,3,4, and 5 combined Sinners win when they Eliminate 1 and 3. Townies (3 and 4) win when they have eliminated 1 and 2 Townies in the 5 category, win when Sinners win ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/755 "2009-05-06T23:39:16Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > So? Getting rid of sinners would also help us because we don’t want to be infected with the seed of sin. Yes, this is true. Have you finally caught up with the reading? ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/756 "2009-05-06T23:39:37Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Technically, he would an impure Townie, not a Sinner. > > See, I think we have these types of players: > > 1. Blackhearts > 2. Sinners > 3. Pure Townies, never infected with the seed of sin > 4. Impure Townies, Town players who have been infected with the seed of Sin, but have refused to accept the win condition. They have the seed of sin, but have prayed or otherwise had it’s effect neutralized. BUt they are no longer pure. They have the Town win condition. > 5. Town who have accepted the Sinner’s win condition. They are still Town. They are not pure. They win with the Sinners. > Now, as to category 5. I’m not sure we can call them Sinners, because there is no solid indication they join the Sinners. (i.e., there’s no sign they get to be in their thread or other decision making. They are just aligned with them). > > Blackhearts win when they outnumber 2,3,4, and 5 combined > Sinners win when they Eliminate 1 and 3. > Townies (3 and 4) win when they have eliminated 1 and 2 > Townies in the 5 category, win when Sinners win Okay…so town who accepted the Sinners’ win condition would still count in the numbers of town…but will win if the Sinners win? This is possible, I suppose. As to what you said about category 5: I could swear Pedescribe said that the Sinners don’t know how many of each other there are or who they are. I am going back to find the post. It’s possible I misread it and it said that people who were sinfected don’t, but I really, really think he said it was the Sinners. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/757 "2009-05-06T23:44:34Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Technically, he would an impure Townie, not a Sinner. > > See, I think we have these types of players: > > 1. Blackhearts > 2. Sinners > 3. Pure Townies, never infected with the seed of sin > 4. Impure Townies, Town players who have been infected with the seed of Sin, but have refused to accept the win condition. They have the seed of sin, but have prayed or otherwise had it’s effect neutralized. BUt they are no longer pure. They have the Town win condition. > 5. Town who have accepted the Sinner’s win condition. They are still Town. They are not pure. They win with the Sinners. > Now, as to category 5. I’m not sure we can call them Sinners, because there is no solid indication they join the Sinners. (i.e., there’s no sign they get to be in their thread or other decision making. They are just aligned with them). > > Blackhearts win when they outnumber 2,3,4, and 5 combined > Sinners win when they Eliminate 1 and 3. > Townies (3 and 4) win when they have eliminated 1 and 2 > Townies in the 5 category, win when Sinners win Not to split heirs… but to be accurate Sinners win when all remaining players have the seed of sin… not when they eliminate Blackhearts and Town. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/758 "2009-05-06T23:45:50Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > **Does this mean that a townie who is infected with the Seed of Sin counts towards the Sinner’s win condition even if they choose to pray?** > [@pedescribe](#): > > Yes, until they are repurified through prayer. I thought that was clear in the beginning; perhaps I misworded it. Townies who have completed their 2 Nights of prayer do not count towards the Sinner’s win condition. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/759 "2009-05-06T23:48:03Z")
After re-reading and finding this, I wanted to modify the alignments as I see them. > [@The Rules](#): > > The town wins when every player alive is Pure. > The Blackhearts win when they control the vote. > The Sinners win when every player has the Seed of Sin within them. See, I think we have these types of players: 1. Blackhearts 2. Sinners 3. Pure Townies, not currently infected with the seed of sin 4. Not yet back to Pure Townies, Town players who have been infected with the seed of Sin, but have refused to accept the win condition. They have not finished the process of removing the seed of sin. (e.g., they haven’t finished praying or had the seed removed via another power) 5. Impure Town who have accepted the Sinner’s win condition. They are still Town. They are not pure. They win with the Sinners. 6. Re-Pure Town. These are category 5 Town who have had the seed of sin removed from them by another power. Blackhearts win when they outnumber 2,3,4,5, and 6 combined Sinners win when they Eliminate 1 and 3. Townies (3 and 4) win when they have eliminated 1, 2, and 5 Townies in the 5 and 6 category, win when Sinners win ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/760 "2009-05-06T23:50:46Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Not to split heirs… but to be accurate Sinners win when all remaining players have the seed of sin… not when they eliminate Blackhearts and Town. They eliminate Town by infecting them. The player may be a category 4 or 5 Townie, but they are not 3 anymore. And yes, it’s possible that they can give the Blackhearts the seed of sin, isn’t it? SO that may be possible. Let me try my categories again. 1. Blackhearts (unifected with the Sedd of Sin) 2. Sinners 3. Pure Townies, not currently infected with the seed of sin 4. Not yet back to Pure Townies, Town players who have been infected with the seed of Sin, but have refused to accept the win condition. They have not finished the process of removing the seed of sin. (e.g., they haven’t finished praying or had the seed removed via another power) 5. Impure Town who have accepted the Sinner’s win condition. They are still Town. They are not pure. They win with the Sinners. 6. Re-Pure Town. These are category 5 Town who have had the seed of sin removed from them by another power. 7. Infected Blackhearts. Their win condition does not change. Blackhearts (1 and 7 combined) win when they outnumber 2,3,4,5, and 6 combined Sinners win when they Eliminate 1 and 3. Townies (3 and 4) win when they have eliminated 1, 2, 5, and 7 Townies in the 5 and 6 category, win when Sinners win [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=39)