# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/801 "2009-05-07T02:41:56Z")
Inner Stickler: Let’s follow this rabbit hole some more. Who would you want Meeko to vote for, Inner Stickler? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/802 "2009-05-07T02:44:42Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\* > > Afterall, we no longer have O on the table. I might be crazy, but I am NOT insane. -For Insane Meeko, watch me play Haggle. Mahaloth, am I right, or am I right? He’s right. Let me put this in the most polite way possible. Don’t fuck with Meeko in a Haggle game. It’s like trying to rationalize with a genius, hyperactive, paranoid, obsessive…dude. I invited Meeko to the game because of the last game of Haggle and I have to say, he has delivered. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/803 "2009-05-07T02:48:06Z")
I need to walk away… good luck Ed… I thought you were stretched thin before… but I can’t imagine being as stretched out as you and having to deal with THIS game. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/804 "2009-05-07T02:57:58Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Inner Stickler: > > Let’s follow this rabbit hole some more. > > Who would you want Meeko to vote for, Inner Stickler? I want Meeko to use his powers of observation and deduction to vote for someone he thinks is purposefully hindering town. And explain why so the rest of us may evaluate your case and possibly join you. As for me, as odd as paul has been acting, I try to avoid lynching power roles and despite the fact that paul’s claimed role is not as confirmable as some other more usual town roles, I will withdraw my vote. **Unvote Paul** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/805 "2009-05-07T03:03:55Z")
**Vote Count Ped?** ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/806 "2009-05-07T03:38:55Z")
Vote count! Paulwhoisaghost (4): Chronos, Rysto, Freudian Slit, Mahaloth ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/807 "2009-05-07T04:57:20Z")
Paul’s power, if it is what he says it is, could be a useful weapon against the Sinners. If he uses it right. Paul, how about you don’t investigate for a while, m’kay? Use your purifying power - fire random purifying shots into the crowd if you have to. The other Powers have too high a cost on them, so keep to the one without cost. For now, at least. I say keep Paul alive for now. his power can help the Sinners, then convert to the Sinners, but that would be a mid- to long-term plan. Let’s not throw away a potent anti-Sinner weapon. As to who to lynch? I don’t like LtL on Day 1, as sometimes it is not clear who is lurking. But really, Nanook is a complete noshow. There are subbed out users with more posts than him (?). In fact, I thought Nanook must have been subbed out too, but not according to ped’s player list. **Vote Nanook** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/808 "2009-05-07T05:22:15Z")
I really hate the timing in Mafia. Haggle, has no “in game” timing. As such, you can do anything, anytime. – It gets real fun when you are just checking in on the thread, and find 2 other players trying to make an offer to each other, that you can make better. I digress. Timing sucks. If you can’t even stand the tempo in Mafia, which is, I must say incredibly long per Day, get out. We will help show you the Door. **Vote Nanook** ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/809 "2009-05-07T05:24:46Z")
Meeko, did you have a reason for voting for Nanook, or are you just jumping on any and all bandwagons that cross your path? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/810 "2009-05-07T05:24:57Z")
NETA : I wonder, Paul How can someone vote, if they are on a post restriction ? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/811 "2009-05-07T05:26:44Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Meeko, did you have a reason for voting for Nanook, or are you just jumping on any and all bandwagons that cross your path? Are you saying that instead of NNS, I should vote IS ? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/812 "2009-05-07T05:31:37Z")
I’m saying it’s considered polite to explain your voting choice. Did Nanook do something you thought was scummy? Do you find the idea of lynching a lurker attractive? Are you hoping that if the lynch goes awry, Allwalker will take the heat and you can slip under the radar? The Town needs information. The more open and forthright you are, the more transparent your actions and thought process, (and this goes for everyone, not just you, Meeko) the better chance we have of the town winning. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/813 "2009-05-07T05:31:55Z")
But seriously. This game is like nailing jello to a tree. I have ideas, but frankly, I think Paul did the damage himself, and thus, also to having votes go elsewhere early on here. IS, I do intend to put up a case for someone, but I am not going to do it Today. It is not you IS. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/814 "2009-05-07T05:34:29Z")
You think someone is scummy but you’re going to wait through a lynch and a Night before you tell us who it is?! Please tell me I’ve misinterpreted. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/815 "2009-05-07T05:36:18Z")
NETA : My digression into Haggle timing was not totally irrelevant. I actually understand the lynch the lurker concept. I am not sure if Meeko having a High post count is good or bad. I can tell you perhaps a day or two after my time in this game is over with. In short, lynch the lurker looks like a good idea to me right now. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/816 "2009-05-07T05:43:09Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You think someone is scummy but you’re going to wait through a lynch and a Night before you tell us who it is?! Please tell me I’ve misinterpreted. :smack: Apparently, I am still not getting this game. or EVERYONE votes at the drop of a hat. Each and Every hat. I could start my case now, and have it die before today ends. No votes would change. The long and the short of it is simply this : I need more information before I can continue here. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/817 "2009-05-07T05:49:57Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > :smack: > > Apparently, I am still not getting this game. or EVERYONE votes at the drop of a hat. Each and Every hat. > > I could start my case now, and have it die before today ends. No votes would change. > > The long and the short of it is simply this : > > I need more information before I can continue here. Votes can swing quickly, especially when there are weak cases everywhere. Think about it - your argument might be the best one in Town right now. Even if it doesn’t go through toDay, your case will not be hurt. It’s either that, or you allow someone you think is scummy to live to see another Day. Stop being vague, stop procrastinating, and just tell us. And saying you need more info doesn’t help. It either helps scum, by putting them on guard, or it helps no one. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/818 "2009-05-07T06:31:39Z")
Here we go. It Took a while to find all of this. My ADD almost gave up on it all. It is long. But then again, you guys did ask for it. * * * I am not withdrawing my vote on Nanook. However, I still want to publically look at Chronos. * * * > [@Chronos](#): > > Confirming receipt of role PM. This is my first game playing, but I’ve watched several others with interest. > > \ > > These literary-themed games usually have named characters for the power roles, right? I’m guessing we have someone on the Sinner side with the role “Hester Prynne”, and someone on the Blackheart side with the role “Roger Chillingworth”, at least. Can anyone who’s read _The Scarlet Letter_ speculate on other roles? > [@Chronos](#): > > Generic ponderings about the factions and win conditions: > > We’re told that the Blackhearts are a more-or-less traditional scum faction. I assume that that means that they can night-kill one person per turn. > > \ > > I assume that Blackhearts count as “sinners” with respect to victory conditions). > > The Sinners appear to be a mostly-normal scum faction, except with recruitment instead of killing. > > \ > > On numbers: From a balance standpoint, I would expect that there are fewer Sinners than Blackhearts, since the number of Sinners can increase over the course of the game. I would also expect that the Sinners start with at least 2 or 3 members, since otherwise a lucky hit could kill the faction entirely at the beginning of the game. > > \ > > The best-case outcome for Town is if Town ostracizes the four Blackhearts on the first four days, and the Blackhearts kill the three Sinners on the first three days. > > \ > > In this case, all players except for Blackhearts (approximately 14, given my assumptions above) would end up on the Sinners team, which would win. > > This seems to suggest that it might be to the advantage of almost everyone for Town and Sinners to collaborate for a Sinner victory. > [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **me** :Correction: Assuming there are at least two Sinners to start, there exists a condition under which every player wins, if we choose to coöperate. It goes something like this: > > \ > > Net result: 18 winning players, 0 losing players. Thoughts? > [@Chronos](#): > > On another note, I’ve finally finished the post number/content count I’ve been planning on since the start of the Day. Starting when **pedescribe** announced Day 1 (since that seems to have been when role PMs were sent out), I classified each post as “signal” or “noise”, and tallied for each player. This was necessarily subjective, of course, and others might come to slightly different counts. A post was considered “signal” if it contained a vote, a question to the mod, discussion of general strategies, discussion of actions of other posters, or other material relevant to the game. A post was considered “noise” if it did not contain any material relevant to the game. A high amount of noise, or a low ratio of signal to noise, is a bad sign, since it may indicate a Scum trying to hide in plain sight: Escape being labeled a lurker, while still not providing any actual information to help the Town. Totals are up through post #390 > > I have not combined the totals for players who have subbed out, since players might have different ways of handling the same role: One scum player might favor lurking, while another does not, for instance. **BillMC** and **Captain Pinkies** are notable for having signal to noise ratios of less than 1, both with very low participation overall, and **Meeko** , who has the most posts by a fair margin, has an SNR of less than 1.5 As I have raised before, I raise again, I don’t think that Chronos is Town. Chronos loves to have a system to guide his play. Granted, the system has changed, but he has come to this game trying to “solve” the game in pure black and white. Chronos can make up any system he wants. and in so doing, he will favor himself. What would happen to my Signal-Noise ratio if I started quoting Lorem Ipsum? Should I break into Mary Had a Little Lamb, while I am at it? Would it take away from the other parts of this post? Added to this, it gives him minimal exposoure to the game, and he does not have to work or grind information out. Chronos can sit in the background and work his system. However, it would seem to me, that MOST if not all of this game is played by reading tells. That is, there is a gray area to Mafia. The entire game is a gray area I feel that Chronos gets an added benefit. Because he creates a system, he figures that he puts himself in a bubble. I made this system up, no one would ever vote me because of it. Chronos has his script and he feels that he is good as long as he can stick to his prepared statement. What additional information does Chronos have, that he feels this comfortable locking into a system? Black and White play, Binary, if you will, implies that he is working on something we are not. Being this rigid is either a sign of a Robot, or sign of a scum. I don’t think the town can stand for either. * * * Also, Revisit top of page 5. Chronos says he is new to Mafia, BUT he seems to have answers ready to go to questions and coments I have. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/819 "2009-05-07T08:39:38Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Also, Revisit top of page 5. Chronos says he is new to Mafia, BUT he seems to have answers ready to go to questions and coments I have. Just to be clear - by the top of page five, you mean post #109? The one where Chronos says > [@](#): > > Confirming receipt of role PM. This is my first game playing, but I’ve watched several others with interest. Watching other games gives you a good insight into the mechanics, nearly as good as playing them. Personally, I’d call this a null tell. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/820 "2009-05-07T12:32:38Z")
Guys/Gals, I won’t be online much until the evening. I’m out of the “office”(I’m a teacher) for most of the day today. I’ll pop in if I get a chance, but don’t expect too much of me today(small "d’). I see that lynching the lurker(Nanook) has been discussed, which was an option I was and still am considering. I’m leaving my vote for paul for now, but I’ll read carefully and think about what to do later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=42)