# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/841 "2009-05-07T16:34:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Meeko** :Well, neither, but probably closer to the “robot” end of the scale, actually. In and out of a game, I tend towards a very analytic style of thinking, Chronos, Are you INTP on Meyers Briggs? One guess as to what I am. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/842 "2009-05-07T16:48:20Z")
Vote count! Paulwhoisaghost (3): Rysto, Freudian Slit, Mahaloth Nanook (2): AllWalker, Meeko Chronos (1): Special Ed ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/843 "2009-05-07T17:11:31Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > No, and no. This is important and I don’t know how to quote the post that pedescribe is responding to in this post, so I’m copying and pasting it. It’s post 577 if you want to look it up to make sure I’m telling the truth. It’s a post from Chronos and I’ve snipped the first half because it’s not relevant to what I’m pointing out: \<\ **Author:** ![BillMC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BillMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillMC)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/844 "2009-05-07T17:15:35Z") Bloody hell - for a moment there I thought I was on FB with the volume of posts. I need more caffeine before tackling the days posts. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/845 "2009-05-07T17:18:17Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Of course, I’m also not sure how they can sinfect people at night if they don’t vote together. Perhaps they each vote by PM to pedescribe? Or the victim is chosen randomly? Or there’s a head Sinner who makes the choice him/herself? Your last option is my guess. Of all the sinner roles, one of them probably has the power role of being able to recruit/sinfect others. Of the others there’s probably some other power roles in there and at least one ‘vanilla sinner’. Similar to a mason group with it’s own wincon. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/846 "2009-05-07T17:42:35Z")
I phrased that that way with a distinction between “members of the Sinner faction” and “players with the Sinner win condition”. My best guess of the meaning of **pede** ’s answer is that those people who started the game as Sinners do get to communicate in some way, but that the people they recruit are not allowed into that “inner circle”. Oh, and a post I didn’t see before my previous post: Quoth **Meeko** : > [@](#): > > But. But… > > Didn’t Paul Track you? > > Didn’t you do nothing in particular? > But Uhm, thanks? To sum up: **special ed** claims to have privileged information that **Meeko** is Town, while **paulwhoisaghost** claims to have privileged information that **special ed** took no actions last Night. This is exactly the sort of situation I enjoy analyzing in these games. The upshot is, it is not possible that ( **Meeko** is Scum and **special ed** is Town), and it is unlikely that all three of **Meeko** , **special ed** , and **paulwhoisaghost** are Town (unless **special ed** ’s knowledge comes from a source other than a Night action, such as a Day action or a PM at the beginning of the game). ---
**Author:** ![BillMC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BillMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillMC)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/847 "2009-05-07T18:45:43Z")
**Paul** I’m really not sure what you aimed to achieve with the PM msg - declare yourself as a target to scum, or an attempt to gain town cred. Even your claim is murky - tracker/vig (you claimed you could kill) and that the side effect of your power is someone getting randomly infected. > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Receiving the Seed of Sin does not mean you are recruited to the Sinners. > [@pedescribe](#): > > People are not getting it. > > When a townie is infected with the Seed of sin, 2 things happen: > –That player has the option to change his win condition to that of the sinners > –That player’s state changes from ‘Pure Town’ to ‘Impure Town’ regardless of which decision he made in 1. > > An infected townie can pray each night. One night of completed prayer does nothing. Two nights of completed prayer, consecutive or non, does the following: > –It changes their status back to ‘Pure Town’. > > Whenever a townie is purified, through whatever means, if he had previously change his win condition, he can change it back to the Town one or keep it at the sinner one. > > If a Sinner is purified against his will for some reason, his win condition cannot change. > > If a Blackheart is infected with the seed of sin or purified, his win condition cannot change. In general, a change of win condition is recruitment - so an infected player can chose to be recruited, so as **Ed** has previously mentioned, the Sinners are more of a Cult. > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > :smack: I have been operating under bad info… > The town wins when every player alive is Pure. > The Blackhearts win when they control the vote. > The Sinners win when every player has the Seed of Sin within them. > > The Sinners and town cannot win together. I cannot win for town by killing everyone else. That sucks… Well that wasted 10 mins of my life pointing out why your theory was wrong, and then you go and finally notice it yourself. > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Fine… you want to know how I know there are at least two sinfected? Because I caused one of them to become sinfected. It is a side effect of using my power. If I use my power, a random person will become sinfected. Is that enough for you? Or will you not be happy until I am either lynched or entirely outed? This confuses me - ok lets say that you have randomly infected someone as a result of your action - then how do you know there is another sinner? Are you adding investigator to the list of skills. > [@Chronos](#): > > To sum up: **special ed** claims to have privileged information that **Meeko** is Town, while **paulwhoisaghost** claims to have privileged information that **special ed** took no actions last Night. This is exactly the sort of situation I enjoy analyzing in these games. The upshot is, it is not possible that ( **Meeko** is Scum and **special ed** is Town), and it is unlikely that all three of **Meeko** , **special ed** , and **paulwhoisaghost** are Town (unless **special ed** ’s knowledge comes from a source other than a Night action, such as a Day action or a PM at the beginning of the game). So if we believe **Paul** then **Ed** is possibly scummy; but the momentum seems to be that **Paul** is scummy. Of course, both could be scum - tho if they were the case, why would **Paul** effectively contradict **Ed**? I can’t make up my mind whether you are scummy, or have just gotten yourself into a hole and kept digging. Elsewhere in the news > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I gotta give you all something to analyze Tomorrow other than fluff. Waaayy back here - the rest of the post was pretty much fluff and a suggestion that **Chronos** was after a mass fishing trip. The thing about this post that pings me is the need to say something to make it look like you were saying something - hey! I’m hiding in plain site. The rest of the things that pinged me are kinda irrelevant now as the O v E debate as been purged. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/848 "2009-05-07T18:53:40Z")
Oh, my God, this thread is painful to read. It seems like **Meeko** has totally taken over the game with his constant posting of stuff which is completely incoherent half the time. At least **peeker** usually only posts a sentence or two per post. We are spending all of our time reacting to him rather than playing Mafia. Could be a way of lurking in plain sight, could just be him being a newbie. I am more than half tempted to propose lynching him just to stop the game from adding three new pages of nothing each day. I can totally see why people were hot to lynch **paul** ; from his “Sinners are just like us” comment yesterday, to his failure to vote, his bizarre “Look at me, I’m a power role!” last night which somehow didn’t get him modkilled, to his trying to softclaim and then throwing a hissy fit when people called him on it…he’s not playing Town, whether he actually is Town or not. I don’t think I buy his claim; he may have some or all of the powers he claims, but that doesn’t mean he’s Town. If\*\* Angel\*\* says she has been dissinfected Tomorrow morning, that won’t rule out the possibilities that (a) **Angel** and **Paul** are on the same scum team or (b) **Paul** is a Blackheart with some anti-Sinner powers. I still think my case against Angel was pretty good for Day One. I wish Town would be making some more progress, because I like to have a better case on Day Two. Again, if you go back and re-read page six, in which Angel is asked to clarify her actions, stumbles around contradicting herself and finally manages to arrive at a position in which she is no longer contradicting herself and can explain her actions by claiming to have made two massive oversights (editing a post and voting for me based on completely false pretenses). The whole interaction just felt very off to me. At the very best, she is Town who is not paying attention, and I think she still might be my favored lynch candidate. I’m also fine with lynching **Nanook** ; he is lurking and I thought he might have been guiding the Spurious bandwagon yesterday. Seems like if we are going for a lurker, though, why not **BillMC** , who not only hasn’t been playing but didn’t even _vote_ yesterday! Questions: **Meeko** , why did you vote for **Spurious George?** Why did you first vote for **Paul** , then unvote him, then vote him again, then unvote him again, then vote for **Nanook?** _This_ sort of thing – votes and the reasons underlying them – are the sort of thing we need to be talking about, not whatever bizarre tangent you happen to feel like going off on. Information about how other players are thinking is what really helps Town. **Angel** , you posted almost immediately after the Dawn post. Why did you wait until the next day to let everyone know you had been sinfected? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/849 "2009-05-07T19:00:41Z")
> [@BillMC](#): > > Waaayy back here - the rest of the post was pretty much fluff and a suggestion that **Chronos** was after a mass fishing trip. The thing about this post that pings me is the need to say something to make it look like you were saying something - hey! I’m hiding in plain site. > [@Meeko](#): > > I feel that Chronos gets an added benefit. Because he creates a system, he figures that he puts himself in a bubble. I made this system up, no one would ever vote me because of it. > > Chronos has his script and he feels that he is good as long as he can stick to his prepared statement. NETA : I was saying that Chronos feels that CHRONOS puts himself in a bubble, not that Meeko somehow is put into a bubble. – No one would thus vote against Chronos. I would hope that would be clear, but I want to bend over backwards here. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/850 "2009-05-07T19:00:42Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*NETA : > > Simply, we more or less stop play for the day after we agree to all vote Paul, if indeed we are doing that. > > In this way, we do not give Sinners or Blackhearts any more information, AND we block their obvious move Tonight.\*\* This is a terrible idea, exactly the opposite of the way the game should be played. If we lynch someone who we all agree is acting bizarre, what do we do tomorrow? Even if he turns out to be scum, what have we gained in terms of information to base our Day Three votes on? What “information” would we profit from depriving the scum of;our thought processes? Sure, it is risky to let the scum know that we suspect them, but it is unavoidable. We have no other way of communicating our suspicions to our fellow Town, which is essential for using the strongest tool we have – the lynch – effectively. And how does it help us to “block their obvious move?”. We need to be talking about the game. We need to be justifying our votes. **Meeko** doesn’t want us to be doing the first, and clearly isn’t doing the latter. What the hell, I’ll just go for it. **vote Meeko** pending some coherent explanation of his thought processes there. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/851 "2009-05-07T19:01:47Z")
Two Noob questions: 1. Bleach? 2. I notice that most people Bold names of other people. Why exactly? I have a guess, but I do not want to bias the answer. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/852 "2009-05-07T19:07:50Z")
People bold names to make it easier to see the names. I don’t do it because it makes it easier for people to skim. They don’t have to read every post, just look for their name. The upside to it, is that when you are doing a reread or looking for a specific post about someone it is easier to find. Bleaching is when you break or remove the color tag from a vote when quoting so that it doesn’t show up in blue and possibly confuse the mod into thinking you were voting. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/853 "2009-05-07T19:08:04Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > 1. I notice that most people Bold names of other people. Why exactly? I have a guess, but I do not want to bias the answer. It’s sort of a standard thing on the SDMB. It’s not specific to Mafia games here. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/854 "2009-05-07T19:10:20Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Sure, it is risky to let the scum know that we suspect them, but it is unavoidable. We have no other way of communicating our suspicions to our fellow Town, which is essential for using the strongest tool we have – the lynch – effectively. And how does it help us to “block their obvious move?”. Back when I was voting Paul, this line of reasoning made sense. Frankly, I think we can all agree that Paul self destructed here. He is probably number one on a very short list that Blackhearts or Sinners have right now. I figured, as long as we HAD to vote, if we could vote Paul, we could get the day over with, doing what we needed to do. **I was hoping to force Sinners and Blackhearts to make a WORSE choice than voting Paul.** In this way, it would help Town. Or so I thought. I have moved off voting Paul. My Ideas for this game fall apart the moment I put them in the water. I am confused by Paul. However, I don’t think he has long for the game. I was looking at just THAT small aspect of the game, and I Was looking for the best way I thought Town could play it. Common Sense, and Experiened players have given a FEW reasons as to why we can not off Paul. – If That would matter tommorow anyway. In short, I was willing to take a loss here, because I figured Scorched Earth over Paul IS the logical choice Tonight. I Think I am wrong here. At the end of the day, I just don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/855 "2009-05-07T19:27:46Z")
Here’s the deal. The Idle game is slow enough that I can follow it and post to it from work. This thread? Way too busy to keep up with during working hours. However, that said I’ll be back with some thoughts in a bit. But in the mean time, I want to hear from Ed and Paul as to the apparent contradiction in their claims. If you did nothing last night, as Paul claims, then how do you know Meeko is Town? If you’re a Mason, you might as well just claim now. If you aren’t, and you did in fact take an action last Night, then you need to say so since it would indicate that Paul is a liar. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/856 "2009-05-07T19:32:27Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I still think my case against Angel was pretty good for Day One. I wish Town would be making some more progress, because I like to have a better case on Day Two. Again, if you go back and re-read page six, in which Angel is asked to clarify her actions, stumbles around contradicting herself and finally manages to arrive at a position in which she is no longer contradicting herself and can explain her actions by claiming to have made two massive oversights (editing a post and voting for me based on completely false pretenses). The whole interaction just felt very off to me. At the very best, she is Town who is not paying attention, and I think she still might be my favored lynch candidate. > > SNIP > > Questions: > > **Meeko** , why did you vote for **Spurious George?** Why did you first vote for **Paul** , then unvote him, then vote him again, then unvote him again, then vote for **Nanook?** _This_ sort of thing – votes and the reasons underlying them – are the sort of thing we need to be talking about, not whatever bizarre tangent you happen to feel like going off on. Information about how other players are thinking is what really helps Town. > > **Angel** , you posted almost immediately after the Dawn post. Why did you wait until the next day to let everyone know you had been sinfected? Because I didn’t see the PM telling me I was sinfected until much later. **Vote Thing Fish** This is an OMGUS vote but I don’t care. You seem hell-bent on getting me lynched when all I’ve demonstrated is confusion with the mechanics of the message board. And now you’re trying to connect me with Paul as a Blackheart because I believe his claim? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/857 "2009-05-07T19:33:03Z")
Well, \*\*Nanook \*\*has at least checked in. **Captain Pinkies?** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/858 "2009-05-07T19:38:56Z")
1. It would seem that two lines are what is asked of, of me, from now on. 2. Are we stating that Paul is Blackheart, or Sinner? ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/859 "2009-05-07T19:42:33Z")
Regarding my “lurking”. This comes up in every single game I play, and I’m done defending myself regarding it. I put more thought and content into one of my posts than most people put in 10. My style is not changing, period. If you want to lynch me for it, go to town. But at least try and pretend you have a reason for it. Meeko, please do me a favor and just take a deep breath. This is not Haggle. Unless you are a Third Party/PFK, you win as a team with your side. Thinking outside the box is good, but thinking so far outside the box that no one has any clue what you’re on about is not. It actively hurts your side, whichever it may be, and makes it difficult for people to play. Peeker is similar, but his style has adjusted some to the point where he is still Peeker, but you can follow him with a little effort. You aren’t at that point yet. I would love for you to get to that point though, because people who think and act differently are a great boon to Mafia in general. Thing Fish. You think I was guiding the bandwagon Yesterday? Really? And how the hell was I doing that? I came in the middle of it. Plenty of people voted for him both before and after I did. No one seemed to jump on my post as a reason to vote for him. Yet you seem to think I guided it. Right now, I’m probably going to vote for one of two people, depending on what they post in the near future. Either Paul or Ed. What they say regarding the apparent contradiction will determine where my vote falls. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/860 "2009-05-07T19:45:16Z")
> [@BillMC](#): > > **Paul** I’m really not sure what you aimed to achieve with the PM msg - declare yourself as a target to scum, or an attempt to gain town cred. > Even your claim is murky - tracker/vig (you claimed you could kill) and that the side effect of your power is someone getting randomly infected. Well if I had made up my claim, it wouldn’t be such a mess… I would have only claimed a single power. As it is, the role is Pede’s crazy handywork. Oh… and if I had faked my claim I would have set Ed up to be lynched 😛 (and it pains me that I have to say this, but that last part was a joke) > [@BillMC](#): > > This confuses me - ok lets say that you have randomly infected someone as a result of your action - then how do you know there is another sinner? Are you adding investigator to the list of skills. Pede said himself that each faction takes an action on the players as a whole each Day/Night cycle. The town votes for lynch/the blackhearts NK/ and the Sinners… well they sinfect right? At least that was my thought process… I dunno what you all thought. > [@BillMC](#): > > So if we believe **Paul** then **Ed** is possibly scummy; but the momentum seems to be that **Paul** is scummy. Of course, both could be scum - tho if they were the case, why would **Paul** effectively contradict **Ed**? You make it sound like Ed claimed something and I contradicted him. When what actually happened is I provided you with the info I received and Ed claimed to provide info he has on Meeko. I don’t know what to make of the situation… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=44)