# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1161 "2009-05-13T11:26:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Some thoughts on Sin: > Fact 1: Hester Prynne is dead, and her role was described as simply “Sinner”, with no indication of being any special sort of Sinner. > Fact 2: Exactly one person claimed to have been Sinfected on Night 1. > Fact 3: **paulwhoisaghost** claimed to have Sinfected someone random on Night 1. > Fact 4: **paulwhoisaghost** died a Pure Puritan. > Assumption 5: The Sinner faction can choose and Sinfect one person each Night. > Assumption 6: Town who have accepted the Sin win condition cannot use the Sinner power to Sinfect. OK, I’m with you so far. This means we have as many as 2 players who have been sinfected but not claimed it (paul could have had a useless random sinfection, that is, the night killed person, angel again, or someone who was already a Sinner) > [@Chronos](#): > > From 1, I conclude 7: that the Sinner faction started with a single member, **Captain Pinkies** , who is now dead. NOw THAT is quite a stretch, and I’m really getting pinged by how often your posts seem to be minimizing the threat the sinners pose to us. > [@Chronos](#): > > From 6 and 7, I conclude 8: that it is no longer possible for Sinners to Sinfect, and the only other means we know of for Sinfection ( **paul** ’s power) is no longer possible. ditto > [@Chronos](#): > > From 8, I conclude 9: That it is no longer possible, or at best extremely unlikely, for the Sinner win condition to be met. ditto. I mean really. WHY is the assumption that we had only 1 sinner? > [@Chronos](#): > > From 4, I conclude 10: That **paul** was telling the truth, and that therefore he did in fact Sinfect someone on Night 1. > From 2, 5, and 10, I conclude 11: Someone else, other than **Angel** was Sinfected on night 1, but chose to embrace Sin. again, unless you’re wrong > [@Chronos](#): > > From 9 and 11, I conclude 12: That person is now well and truly screwed, and might as well just concede and save the rest of us some time. OK, I’ll have to grant you that this is NOT supportive of the sinners. It’s also wrong. It’s not too late for that person to pray. I don’t recall pede saying that the praying had to take place immediately, though I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1162 "2009-05-13T11:27:46Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I was sinfected last Night, Chronos, so you may want to revise your conclusions. Or not it’s up to you. I chose to pray, if you’re wondering. I should read ALL of the posts before making a long post. :smack: OK, so we know there are more Sinners. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1163 "2009-05-13T12:28:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Some thoughts on Sin: > Fact 1: Hester Prynne is dead, and her role was described as simply “Sinner”, with no indication of being any special sort of Sinner. > Fact 2: Exactly one person claimed to have been Sinfected on Night 1. > Fact 3: **paulwhoisaghost** claimed to have Sinfected someone random on Night 1. > Fact 4: **paulwhoisaghost** died a Pure Puritan. > Assumption 5: The Sinner faction can choose and Sinfect one person each Night. > Assumption 6: Town who have accepted the Sin win condition cannot use the Sinner power to Sinfect. > > From 1, I conclude 7: that the Sinner faction started with a single member, **Captain Pinkies** , who is now dead. > From 6 and 7, I conclude 8: that it is no longer possible for Sinners to Sinfect, and the only other means we know of for Sinfection ( **paul** ’s power) is no longer possible. > From 8, I conclude 9: That it is no longer possible, or at best extremely unlikely, for the Sinner win condition to be met. > From 4, I conclude 10: That **paul** was telling the truth, and that therefore he did in fact Sinfect someone on Night 1. > From 2, 5, and 10, I conclude 11: Someone else, other than **Angel** was Sinfected on night 1, but chose to embrace Sin. > From 9 and 11, I conclude 12: That person is now well and truly screwed, and might as well just concede and save the rest of us some time. Chronos, why do you assume that because Hester Prynne died as a vanilla sinner that there are no more sinners? Wouldn’t a vanilla sinner imply that there are other sinners out there? I mean, I would think someone has to have the power to recruit, right? OR if no ONE person has the power to recruit, recruitment is done as a group and from that I wonder if new recruits are allowed to do recruitments. #12 is wrong I think. Why do you think that if someone was sinfected night one, that they didn’t pray it away and just not tell anyone? ---
**Author:** ![BillMC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BillMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillMC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1164 "2009-05-13T12:39:24Z")
Sorry folks, seems straightdope is now getting blocked at work, and by my home ISP. So my time on here will be very very limited (even more than it has been) Pede, if you want to sub me, then that’s cool. Otherwise I’ll post when I can. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1165 "2009-05-13T13:57:46Z")
Perhaps Chronos, I am Captain Pinkie who thought by you am the only criminal. Was similar to you stated that last night was the human who possible his Sinfected intrinsic to stickle, before he has died. Many opportunities to it at first competition’s Sinfect way which and Pedescribe’ establishes; s " Sorts of" Answer only then way truth. If Yoda, I do not have, the matter fish, I sounds? ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1166 "2009-05-13T15:51:56Z")
That’s an interesting theory Chronos. The concept of starting from a single person and recruiting from there has been done before on the Dope, way back in Fluiddruid’s the Mob is Recruiting game. Slightly different situation of course, since that was the entire scum group instead of a second one/Third Party PFK group. I agree that it is plausible, though I’m not sure that it is actually the case as of yet. Figure we give it another Day or two and we should be able to figure it out for certain. Unlike Ed though, I don’t necessarily think you’re scummy(Sinny?) for your theories. Really, I’m not overly concerned with the Sinners right now. With Hester gone, even if they aren’t done, they have to be crippled at least somewhat. So it’s time to start worrying about the Blackhearts. Thing Fish, don’t presume to know the mind of a protective role. Just because Paul died does not mean there isn’t a Doctor type. They might not have believed him, they might have gotten a read on someone else and choose to protect there, or they might have decided to play super safe and self protect. One data point isn’t enough to draw a conclusion. If Paul had claimed say…straight up Detective and died, THEN I would agree with you. Who to vote for…I don’t know yet. I’m going to think on it, read on it, and we’ll see later in the Day. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1167 "2009-05-13T15:55:59Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Thing Fish, don’t presume to know the mind of a protective role. Just because Paul died does not mean there isn’t a Doctor type. They might not have believed him, they might have gotten a read on someone else and choose to protect there, or they might have decided to play super safe and self protect. One data point isn’t enough to draw a conclusion. If Paul had claimed say…straight up Detective and died, THEN I would agree with you. Meeko has claimed to have been protected last Night. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1168 "2009-05-13T16:09:17Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Meeko has claimed to have been protected last Night. You know, I read that, digested it, and it STILL didn’t hit me when I made that post. Not sure why. So there is probably a protective role of some sort out there. This is good. However, this is a Ped game. Don’t assume the protective role is Town aligned(See Molefan’s Captain whateverhisnamewas in Smash Brothers). In other words, be happy that there’s apparently a protective role, but don’t assume it’s Town aligned. Keep an open mind as needed. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1169 "2009-05-13T16:16:52Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > You know, I read that, digested it, and it STILL didn’t hit me when I made that post. Not sure why. > > So there is probably a protective role of some sort out there. This is good. However, this is a Ped game. Don’t assume the protective role is Town aligned(See Molefan’s Captain whateverhisnamewas in Smash Brothers). In other words, be happy that there’s apparently a protective role, but don’t assume it’s Town aligned. Keep an open mind as needed. Is it normal for a non-town protective role to protect town? Would that just be a way to get some ‘town cred’ if the the protector things someone may be watching? ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1170 "2009-05-13T16:25:44Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Is it normal for a non-town protective role to protect town? Would that just be a way to get some ‘town cred’ if the the protector things someone may be watching? Keep in mind that non-town protective roles are not normal to begin with, so any action they may take will be not normal by default. That said, Molefan protected two different people that we(the Scum team in that game) knew were non-scum early in the game. The goal, which basically worked, was to get him “confirmed” as Town with people. It only works of course if the beneficiary of the protection is Town and is informed that they were protected. You know, kinda like what appears to have happened with Meeko. Let me make sure something is clear though. I don’t think it’s LIKELY that Ped used the same basic concept in two games in a row(non-town protector that informs the protectee), I’m just saying it’s possible and we should be aware of that. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1171 "2009-05-13T16:46:07Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Captain whateverhisnamewas [Captain Olimar](http://seriousnerd.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/pikmin_080109a-l.jpg), probably my favorite video game character ever. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1172 "2009-05-13T17:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Chronos, why do you assume that because Hester Prynne died as a vanilla sinner that there are no more sinners? Wouldn’t a vanilla sinner imply that there are other sinners out there? If there were such things as non-vanilla Sinners, I would expect that Hester would be one of them. And the existence of a vanilla member of a faction in no way implies the existence of non-vanilla members: Many games have no non-vanilla scum roles whatsoever. **special ed** , if I were a sinner, why would I be promoting a hypothesis that says that the Sinners cannot win? Sinner recruitment is voluntary, which means that it’s to the Sinners’ advantage for people to think that they’re winning. If the Sinners appear to be winning, then Sinfected players are likely to convert, but if Sinners appear to be losing, then Sinfected players are not likely to convert. Oh, and **AngeloftheNorth** , could you try rephrasing that? It sounds like you’re saying that maybe you’re **Captain Pinkies** , but that doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying that maybe you’re the person Sinfected by **Pinkies**? Maybe, but then there’s (presumably) someone else who was Sinfected by **paulwhoisaghost** , and I don’t see that it matters who was Sinfected by whom: Either way, we have someone who was Sinfected but didn’t declare. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1173 "2009-05-13T17:28:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If there were such things as non-vanilla Sinners, I would expect that Hester would be one of them. And the existence of a vanilla member of a faction in no way implies the existence of non-vanilla members: Many games have no non-vanilla scum roles whatsoever. Ok, I’ve never read the book, never heard of any of the characters, so I didn’t pick up on that. But I’m still curious about recruitment. It seems odd that if the original sinners die, that there would be no more ways left to recruit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1174 "2009-05-13T18:04:20Z")
I’ve never read the book either, but she was the main character, and one of only two characters specifically called out in the first post of the thread. And we started the game with at least three methods of Sinfection, but one (execution) has since been removed by an Act of Mod, and one ( **paul** ’s power) is out of play by virtue of being dead. We can’t rule out the possibility that someone else has a Sinfecting power, but I don’t think it altogether unlikely that we’ve managed to completely defang the Sinners. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1175 "2009-05-13T18:46:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and **AngeloftheNorth** , could you try rephrasing that? It sounds like you’re saying that maybe you’re **Captain Pinkies** , but that doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying that maybe you’re the person Sinfected by **Pinkies**? Maybe, but then there’s (presumably) someone else who was Sinfected by **paulwhoisaghost** , and I don’t see that it matters who was Sinfected by whom: Either way, we have someone who was Sinfected but didn’t declare. No, I said that I thought perhaps Captain Pinkies is the only criminal, when competed starts. After he sent into exile, he possibly still infected another person. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1176 "2009-05-13T18:50:07Z")
Criminal = " Sinner" To Babelfish, obviously. Ooh, I found a loophole: Investment word in quotation. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1177 "2009-05-13T19:07:39Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Criminal = " Sinner" To Babelfish, obviously. Ooh, I found a loophole: Investment word in quotation. Do you think it’s cheating to put each word in quotes? “I” “found” “it” “comes” “back” “the” “Same” “way.”\* \*I didn’t actually translate that, but my test sentence worked. Yeah, it’s probably cheating, and a lot less fun to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1178 "2009-05-13T19:08:33Z")
As others have said, I think it is pretty unlikely that there was only one Sinner to start with, which would have left them vulnerable to a lucky lynch or nightkill (which was pretty much what happened; **Pinkies** was lynched for lurking). And I also don’t know that we can assume that recruits can’t recruit in turn. But the big picture is that we have got one of the bastards and will get more information in the next couple of days. The information we have seems most consistent with there being one recruit out there, but it is possible that one or the other sinfection was blocked somehow (or maybe the Sinners also happened to target **Angel** ). And now, on with the scum-hunting. At this point, other than the half-dozen or so lurkers, nobody is especially pinging me. I still think **Angel** was acting suspiciously on Day One, but since nobody else seems to think so, I may have to consider the unlikely possibility that I was overreacting rather than everyone else underreacting. Besides, she did help hang **Pinkies** , so I am less suspicious of her, though of course that doesn’t mean she’s not a Blackheart. Looking just at votes and post analysis, the people I’m currently most suspicious of are **Freudian Slit** and **Mahaloth** , both of whom voted for **paul** (as, of course, did I --sorry, **paul**!) and both of whom contributed, as I’ve discussed previously, to the **Spurious George** bandwagon, though neither actually ended the Day with votes on him. **Rysto** also voted for **paul** on both Days. And both **Freudian** and, now,\*\* BillMC\*\* have asked for subs. It is really a shame how much this game has been affected by lurkers and dropouts. I am wondering if Ped might want to consider something drastic, like a mass killoff of the lurkers. I would definitely want to think more about whether this idea might benefit one side at the expense of the others before I would formally propose it, though. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1179 "2009-05-13T19:15:34Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Do you think it’s cheating to put each word in quotes? > “I” “found” “it” “comes” “back” “the” “Same” “way.”\* > > \*I didn’t actually translate that, but my test sentence worked. > > Yeah, it’s probably cheating, and a lot less fun to watch. Yes. I will make only its really important word. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1180 "2009-05-13T19:16:13Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And I also don’t know that we can assume that recruits can’t recruit in turn. I mentioned that up thread. I’m willing to bet that the sinners recruit someone as a team, so as long as there is at least one sinner, they can continue to recruit. I could be wrong, but it since they are a recruiting faction, that’s my guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=60)