# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1621 "2009-05-20T21:44:37Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > So. We have Ed dead, > > And\*\* BillMC with Sinfection and Bought vote. \*\* > > I don’t see how Buying a vote can be pro town. > > So, we look then, too “Why BillMC” ? > > . > > Speculation: Buying votes is an exclusive Sinner night choice. > > Mahaloth has had his vote bought, Bill / Paul 3.0 has had his, Didnt Angel or Allwalker have her’s bought? > > A bought vote means, in effect that someone gets to vote twice. I would think, that they would not buy their own vote, because it would be a waste of a power. > > \*\* > Who all has had their vote bought? Who was the pesron voted with your bought vote?\*\* I seem to recall someone having their vote bought on Day 2… oh yeah… I think it was Paulwhoisaghost. Just before he was NK because the doctor wasn’t smart enough to protect the obvious NK choice and prevent the blackhearts from furthering their goal. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1622 "2009-05-20T21:46:58Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Does anyone haave any further questions on how the Mason role worked in this game? > > Now that I am the only Mason, I view my self as a virtual vanilla townie. > > I don’t think how answering questions you might still have, now, could do any harm. > > Everyone and their brother, now tell me why this is wrong. > > But after you disect it for non-existant tells. Meeko you still aren’t getting it. You being a mason means that we should be able to trust your intentions. But you behavior has been so off the wall that it has been impossible to discern what those intentions are. This playstyle might work for you in Haggle… and could probably work for scum as well… but as a mason all your doing is negating the one advantage that you still have. You aren’t a vanilla. You are a CONFIRMED TOWN. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1623 "2009-05-20T21:51:26Z")
Quoth **Meeko** : > [@](#): > > Now that I am the only Mason, I view my self as a virtual vanilla townie. Not quite. You’re a vanilla Townie _that everyone knows is a Townie_. That’s of tremendous value, since it means that when you say something, we don’t have to waste time thinking “Is he just saying that because he’s Scum?”, and we’ll never waste a vote on you (no matter how much you annoy us). If all the Townies had that power, we’d win hands-down. Quoth **Rysto** : > [@](#): > > Clearly, you haven’t read T2. The politician forced 3 scum to vote for themselves in that game, and outed me as scum by using her power on me the night she died(I was outed because my vote being bought proved me a liar). How did that work? Had you claimed to be immune to Night actions, or something? ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1624 "2009-05-20T21:51:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, I certainly see what you’re saying re **Mahaloth** , at least: He did seem to be playing a key role in the first two lynches. There just hasn’t been a chance to vote for subtle behaviors like that, yet, when people keep doing out-and-out unambiguously scummy things like soft-claiming or admitting to lying. > > Note to Town, by the way: Please stop doing scummy things like soft-claiming and lying. Unless you really happen to be Scum, of course. Soft claiming isn’t always scummy. I still think that providing town with the info that he did before dying was the best play Paulwhoisaghost made. When the rest of us demanded to know how he knew that info we didn’t give him much room to do anything but softclaim. That’s where things got ugly because everyone seems to think that softclaiming and magic bagging are things that only scum do. You forget that scum aren’t the only roles with something to hide. Power roles don’t want the scum to know how important they are. Unless they are trying to buff themselves up to seem really important in an effort to get targeted. Like a doc who plans to self protect… Anyway… Ed and Paul both employed softclaiming and magicbagging… and both had good reason to do it. The rest of us just didn’t know when to keep our traps shut. Another reason that I am suspicious of Mahaloth and would be suspicious of Meeko. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1625 "2009-05-20T21:54:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Rysto** :How did that work? Had you claimed to be immune to Night actions, or something? I claimed to have the ability to redirect night actions. Eventually, the Town worked out that if the politician targeted me, I should be able to use my ability to redirect the vote buying to somebody else. When I didn’t, I was obviously lying scum. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1626 "2009-05-20T22:26:43Z")
ok. i am late. **meek** may be town aligned but definitely not pro town **mahaloth** and **chronos** are coming off as lackies. do what you will. and **pede** , last time i do this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1627 "2009-05-20T22:33:58Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and **pede** , last time i do this shit. I can’t convince you, that you are _wrong_, Peeker, that is obvious. \*\* However, it is more obvious, that you are Anti-Mafia. \*\* I think we all know what the bigger problem is here. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1628 "2009-05-20T22:35:36Z")
**If you buy the vote of scum, can you manipulate their lynch vote, or their NK vote? Or Both?** The Reason I ask, is because I think that Buying and Sinfection of BillMC is more than meets the eye. Does Sinfection give you an additional NK vote? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1629 "2009-05-20T22:37:09Z")
NETA : I use the word Additional, because I mean to imply that people with out sinfection could possibly vote in a NK. OR, if you already have a NK vote, you would get a second one. Hence, I use the word “additional” over the word “One” to avoid the abiguity here. I mean to get at a more encompassing word. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1630 "2009-05-20T22:39:37Z")
Let me try again: I am assuming, ASSUMING HERE WIFOM : Once you become sinfected, you get ONE vote on NightKills. This will be added to any other Votes for nightkills you have. In this manner, the word Additional will ALWAYS fit the person in question, regardless of what they may, or may not already have. Can any Magic The Gathering Players back me up here? Please?! ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1631 "2009-05-20T22:51:35Z")
Jeeze… hurry up and place my vote already whomever you are… ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1632 "2009-05-20T22:56:43Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > ok. i am late. **meek** may be town aligned but definitely not pro town > > **mahaloth** and **chronos** are coming off as lackies. > > do what you will. > > and **pede** , last time i do this shit. Yeah, sorry about subbing you in so late. > [@Meeko](#): > > **If you buy the vote of scum, can you manipulate their lynch vote, or their NK vote? Or Both?** > The Reason I ask, is because I think that Buying and Sinfection of BillMC is more than meets the eye. > > Does Sinfection give you an additional NK vote? Just the lynch vote. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1633 "2009-05-20T23:11:53Z")
Quoth **paul** : > [@](#): > > You forget that scum aren’t the only roles with something to hide. Power roles don’t want the scum to know how important they are. Power roles don’t want Scum to know who they are, period. If the Scum know that Player X has a weak power role, and don’t know who else has a power role, why shouldn’t they target Player X? Even if it’s only a weak role, it’s still low-hanging fruit, and better for them than the vanilla they’d probably get otherwise. There is certainly reason for a power role to not claim at all (for most power roles, at least), but once you’ve stated that you have a power role, Scum knows all they really need to know about you, so you might as well tell all, so that Town knows what’s important, too. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1634 "2009-05-20T23:17:34Z")
Did anyone else want to speculate on why BillMC got both a bought vote, and sinfection? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1635 "2009-05-20T23:25:32Z")
I’m not going to speculate on the bought vote, because I think that the Politician is likely town. As for the sinfection, BillMC was completely under the radar. Even better, he’d posted so little that it’s be impossible to notice a change in his behaviour when recruited. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1636 "2009-05-20T23:42:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, I certainly see what you’re saying re **Mahaloth** , at least: He did seem to be playing a key role in the first two lynches. . What role did I play in the first lynch? I initially had voted for Spurious, but changed to Captain Pinkies(a Sinner, by the way), who did not get lynched until Day Two(I think). I mean, anyone that votes at all for the lynched person plays a role, but I don’t think I’ve shown any anti-town behavior. Anyway, let me know and I’ll respond if you want me to. > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Anyway… Ed and Paul both employed softclaiming and magicbagging… and both had good reason to do it. The rest of us just didn’t know when to keep our traps shut. **Another reason** that I am suspicious of Mahaloth and would be suspicious of Meeko. :bolding mine: What’s the other reason? I haven’t soft or hard claimed(is hard claimed the right term??). > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Jeeze… hurry up and place my vote already whomever you are… I had my vote bought yesterDay, and I did not get the vote until \*\*Sunday \*\*morning(good thing I signed in). I assume that if the politician does not send a vote to you in time, you don’t get a vote at all…which is the fault of the politician. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1637 "2009-05-20T23:44:35Z")
> [@](#): > > As for the sinfection, BillMC was completely under the radar. Even better, he’d posted so little that it’s be impossible to notice a change in his behaviour when recruited. Also, if he’s not able to get online at all, he wouldn’t even attempt to pray, leaving him permanently tainted. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1638 "2009-05-20T23:46:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **paul** :Power roles don’t want Scum to know who they are, period. If the Scum know that Player X has a weak power role, and don’t know who else has a power role, why shouldn’t they target Player X? Even if it’s only a weak role, it’s still low-hanging fruit, and better for them than the vanilla they’d probably get otherwise. > > There is certainly reason for a power role to not claim at all (for most power roles, at least), but once you’ve stated that you have a power role, Scum knows all they really need to know about you, so you might as well tell all, so that Town knows what’s important, too. If Player X has something he wants to share with the rest of town… and no one else is being obvious about being a power role… then he can safely share the info and soft claim under the pretense that he would become the obvious choice for a NK and thus be the obvious choice for protection. The scum then have to WiFoM over whether to kill him or go after a random target. Especially if you are not a vital power role to town like a mason or doc or cop. Then the scum will waste time trying to take you out instead of the more important power roles. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1639 "2009-05-20T23:50:00Z")
Mahaloth… Paulwhoisaghost didn’t log in when he had his vote bought. Pedescribe automatically cast it for him. Meeko. Are you the one buying votes? You can’t seem to move away from the topic… and Pedescribe’s willingness to answer your question strikes me as very odd considering the number of f4’s we have received. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1640 "2009-05-20T23:55:01Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Meeko. Are you the one buying votes? Meeko, you had a question earlier about what constitutes fishing? Here’s a prime example. paul, Meeko’s a mason. Confirmed Town. There is no value to the town in knowing the answer to this question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=83)