# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1741 "2009-05-22T15:44:17Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Funny, most of the other players are still locked up with us Peeker. Do they keep playing, or sub out? > **Seems more like a Prisoners Dilemma to me**. šŸ˜ƒ > And or > Yeah, you sure know your Zeros, donā€™t you? Could it be because you are one? šŸ˜‰ iā€™m rubber you are glue. whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1742 "2009-05-22T15:53:44Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Peeker, I am going to assume that we both have a mutual friend in NAF. I told him point blank, right before we were going into Haggle, that I liked the cut of his jib. > > [I had stated my first move that I WANTED to make in haggle, and he was there with me, tit for tat.] > > I know we come off at odds with each other. > > Very seriously: > > \*\* > FRANKLY\*\*, I think it is because we are too much alike. and i donā€™t know that you would call our little group of crazy seekers/peekers/meekers ā€œfriendsā€ but we sure as hell are community. **naf** be good folk. have you peed in **buff** ā€™s butt yet? and thatā€™s it for this discussion. back to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1743 "2009-05-22T16:02:41Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > Having said that, I myself have been in positions where I had theories which I could not reveal, at the time. In my case it depended on the alignment of a particular player who was still alive - this was a previous game, so I wont go into details. But if you have an idea you do not wish to share, then donā€™t, thatā€™s fine. \*\* Is it common to have the most helpful player come off as pinging you?\*\* If only I could have picked the other Mason. Then, Allwalker, you wouldnā€™t ping me as much. However all talk of me being a mason is for naught now. Suck it up, and get out there and play as a vanilla townie. Allwalker, your comments above, the post entire, and other posts where you offer opinion on my tactics have been received. WIFOM and Noob are a deadly mix. I still think my odds are good, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1744 "2009-05-22T16:30:29Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Okay, I had a VERY busy week (spent Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday getting my motorcycle licensce and Iā€™m leaving for a weekend vacation in a about an hour where I may or my not have WiFi access). That being said, Iā€™m on the fence about Peeker at the moment. But Paul said he was ensinned during the night and as we get closer to the end of the game and are losing 2 (most likely) town each Day/Night, we canā€™t have extra sinners running around. > > **Vote PaulWhoIsAGhost/BillMC** > > If I do have WiFi access, Iā€™ll review my vote, but if I donā€™t I wanted to make sure to get it in before day end. So you are concerned about the number of town who keep dying everydayā€¦ but want to kill a townie for receiving the seed of sin? That makes no sense and I wish I could change my vote right now and put it on you. Pay attentionā€¦ being ensinned does not make you a sinner it gives you the choice of switching to the Sinnerā€™s wincon, but you remain town no matter what. The other side of the choice, THE ONE I TOOK, was to reject the Sinnerā€™s winconc and remain 100% town. The downside to choosing that is that it occupies you the next 2 Nights because you have to pray. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1745 "2009-05-22T16:52:55Z")
Again, **Meeko** , you are not a vanilla townie. You are, right now, the most important person in the game, and you actually became more powerful, not less, when **special ed** died. _Everyone in the game knows that youā€™re Town_ā€“ this is not true of anyone else in the game. On another topic: We are nearing the endgame. With 18 players initially, we probably had about 4 Blackhearts, and we havenā€™t found any yet. Weā€™re down to 11 players, and if **paul3** is telling the truth, at least one of those 11 is a Sinner, so we probably only have six Townies left. Weā€™re not _quite_ at LyLo yet, but if we mis-lynch now, Town will probably be in the minority toMorrow. My lack of experience is starting to show, hereā€¦ Are we getting to the point where a mass-claim would be prudent? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1746 "2009-05-22T17:03:16Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\* > Is it common to have the most helpful player come off as pinging you?\*\* Yes, if the person is constantly defending people. Iā€™ve heard that a scum tell can be if a player is constantly defending other townies to get ā€œtown creditā€. Having said that, itā€™s also not pro-town to never defend someone if the arguments are weak against them. I have not noticed a high level of this kind of ā€œhelpā€ in this game from anyone, though. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1747 "2009-05-22T17:46:35Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Yes, if the person is constantly defending people. Iā€™ve heard that a scum tell can be if a player is constantly defending other townies to get ā€œtown creditā€. Having said that, itā€™s also not pro-town to never defend someone if the arguments are weak against them. > > I have not noticed a high level of this kind of ā€œhelpā€ in this game from anyone, though. Scum do sometimes defend people to buy town cred. Itā€™s called snuggling. Unfortunately not a whole lot of town defend other players any more because of this. I for one say forget all that and defend anyone who has a case brought against them that makes no sense. Regardless of my alignment. So it is not something that ONLY scum do. šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1748 "2009-05-22T18:11:48Z")
Alternately, of course, a scum could try to defend other scum, to keep oneā€™s teammates from getting the noose. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1749 "2009-05-22T18:31:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Again, **Meeko** , you are not a vanilla townie. You are, right now, the most important person in the game, and you actually became more powerful, not less, when **special ed** died. _Everyone in the game knows that youā€™re Town_ā€“ this is not true of anyone else in the game. This game splits off from itself way too much. Chronos, I am not sure what to make of your statement here. WIFOM: Assuming that all scum know who they are, it shouldnā€™t really matter if everyone now knows that I am town. Those who needed to know, already knew. Me becoming verified as town gives pro-town people strictly less info than scum already had. I am a still a Mason. That is true. However, I do not see what power I have left. The Masonry had two members, I am the only one left. Who can I talk to in private now? Your quote pings the hell out of me, and this is why: \*\* You are, right now, the most important person in the game\*\* \*\* _Everyone in the game knows that youā€™re Town_ā€“ this is not true of anyone else in the game.\*\* I would think that I an the least important person in the game right now. Further, I think you are trying to get me to move off of something. I would almost want to say that you donā€™t want me voting for Mahaloth here. OR You forgot that scum knew who was scum to begin with. Did both parties get information on who was cum with them? Or, possibly, are you scum of the faction that was not told this information? I need clarification on a LOT of things. Ironically, I am fairly clear on one thing: I can not trust everyone here. Suffice to say, Chronos and Allwalker before him are pinging me. But, we can only get one vote a day. ā˜¹ Im not sure if I could convince even myself on my reasons for Chronos and Allwalker here. Hopefully I will get my answer on my current vote soon enough. * * * I have wrestled with this post for about 30 minutes or so, off and on, with the window still open. Part of the ā€¦ an element of this game is getting your thoughts coherently into a post. This is a problem for me, not just in mafia, but in most things. At the end of the day, I always arrive at the thought I want to get at. On occasion, I am not sure how I ended up at the thought, but it was indeed the thought I wanted, and went after. More often, I intend to MEAN one thing, but say something else. And still, more frequently, what people hear / take from what I say, is something telse yet again. I said before WIFOM and Noob donā€™t mix, but I Think I have a third element that is a fifth wheel here. I sense that the game requires more than I can give it. I am not saying that I am quiting, or that I want to be subbed out. **I am here to play.** I am just saying, I know I am not on all 8 cylinders here. Despite what Peeker is voicing, and what everyone else is simply not saying, I know this game is not going to be my best game. \*\* There is an aspect of the game that remains elusive to me. I hope that I can uncover it before my next game, but, part of me seriously doubts that. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1750 "2009-05-22T18:36:23Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I for one say forget all that and defend anyone who has a case brought against them that makes no sense. Regardless of my alignment. So it is not something that ONLY scum do. šŸ˜› šŸ˜• I am not scum. Let me do a scum tell. šŸ˜• That just, That, I cant even begin the WIFOM there. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1751 "2009-05-22T19:06:32Z")
??? You are suggesting that defending someone is a scumtellā€¦ what I said is that it isnā€™t a scum tell. It is something that anyone can do but a lot of town donā€™t because they are afraid of being seen as scum and getting lynched. Which is REALLY bad play. Town should never be afraid of being lynched or NKdā€¦ it provides info to the rest of town. And being afraid of dying causes townies to do things that hurt town or not do things that would help town. You continue to fail to see how being a confirmed town mason is a good thing. Itā€™s a good thing because it shows us that you are someone that we donā€™t need to worry about. However, you continually arguing with us on this point and continuing to throw out off the wall possibilities and WiFoM is causing us to concentrate on you and not who we should be looking atā€¦ everyone else. I say again that I think this was a REALLY bad game for a newbie to start with and you need to get in on a newbie friendly game in order to reeducate yourself on how the game should actually be played and how you think different roles should be played. In short Meekoā€¦ You think you play the game differently and not wrongā€¦ I agree you are playing differentlyā€¦ and while it isnā€™t exactly a wrong way to playā€¦ I think itā€™s a bad way to play. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1752 "2009-05-22T19:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Assuming that all scum know who they are, it shouldnā€™t really matter if everyone now knows that I am town. Those who needed to know, already knew. Me becoming verified as town gives pro-town people strictly less info than scum already had. > > I am a still a Mason. That is true. However, I do not see what power I have left. The Masonry had two members, I am the only one left. Who can I talk to in private now? No, see, youā€™re comparing to what information Scum has. Instead, compare to what information Town has. Yes, Scum already knew that you were Town (or at least, not the same Scum faction), but _Town didnā€™t_. Town still knows strictly less information than Scum knows, but Town knows strictly more information than Town would know without you being a known Mason. You canā€™t talk to anyone in private, now, but thatā€™s not the biggest advantage Masons have. Masonsā€™ biggest advantage is that they know who each other are. And now, everyone knows who you are. > [@](#): > > I would think that I an the least important person in the game right now. Further, I think you are trying to get me to move off of something. I would almost want to say that you donā€™t want me voting for Mahaloth here. I donā€™t have much objection to anyone you vote for, because I know you have non-scummy reasons to vote for them. Iā€™d just like to know what those non-scummy reasons are. If you think itā€™s best to keep those reasons to yourself, well, I donā€™t know enough to know that thatā€™s wrong, but it sure seems unhelpful, and itā€™s definitely dangerous, if you should happen to die before you tell. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1753 "2009-05-22T19:28:21Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Scum do sometimes defend people to buy town cred. Itā€™s called snuggling. Unfortunately not a whole lot of town defend other players any more because of this. I for one say forget all that and defend anyone who has a case brought against them that makes no sense. Regardless of my alignment. So it is not something that ONLY scum do. šŸ˜› Oh, of course. Iā€™ve defended people who have had poor cases made against them and a few others have even defended me by pointing out how ridiculously vague and lame Meekoā€™s current vote on me is. Including Meeko, oddly enough. šŸ˜‰ šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1754 "2009-05-22T20:09:19Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Oh, of course. Iā€™ve defended people who have had poor cases made against them and a few others have even defended me by pointing out how ridiculously vague and lame Meekoā€™s current vote on me is. > > Including Meeko, oddly enough. šŸ˜‰ šŸ˜ƒ kay, here is a blackheart. his buddy **chronos** is here as well. i get what you were saying but you are still full of stool. iā€™ve never read a game from begin to current in one fell swoop until now. you are definitely black heart. got it right from the first silly vote. woot woot. kill my ass, prove my innocence and the kill them both, please. and **meeko** thatā€™s how itā€™s done. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1755 "2009-05-22T20:12:27Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > iā€™ve never read a game from begin to current in one fell swoop until now. you are definitely black heart. got it right from the first silly vote. woot woot. Again, just stated with no reasoning or evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1756 "2009-05-22T20:32:04Z")
> [@](#): > > kill my ass, prove my innocence and the kill them both, please. Even if you turn up Town, that doesnā€™t mean that youā€™re correct. And for that matter, even if youā€™re not Town, that doesnā€™t mean that youā€™re wrong, either. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1757 "2009-05-22T21:08:49Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Okay, I had a VERY busy week (spent Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday getting my motorcycle licensce and Iā€™m leaving for a weekend vacation in a about an hour where I may or my not have WiFi access). That being said, Iā€™m on the fence about Peeker at the moment. But Paul said he was ensinned during the night and as we get closer to the end of the game and are losing 2 (most likely) town each Day/Night, we canā€™t have extra sinners running around. > > **Vote PaulWhoIsAGhost/BillMC** > > If I do have WiFi access, Iā€™ll review my vote, but if I donā€™t I wanted to make sure to get it in before day end. Congratulations on getting your license!šŸ™‚ Thatā€™s a really bad reason to vote. As **paul** already explained, and as has been gone over about a billion times in the game, if **paul** is telling the truth, all he has to do is pray and the Sinners get no advantage. And I canā€™t think of any reason why he would lie about that, so I suspect that he probably is praying (which doesnā€™t mean heā€™s Town). All that this vote does is discourage people from announcing that they have been sinfected, which deprives Town of information. I think casting a vote like this is worse than running the risk of no-voting. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1758 "2009-05-22T21:11:47Z")
[quote=ā€œpeekercpa, post:1754, topic:494271ā€] kill my ass, prove my innocence and the kill them both, please. [QUOTE] Your ideas are intriguing. Letā€™s move ahead with step one and then re-evaluate. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1759 "2009-05-22T21:26:34Z")
Furthermore, even if we had someone that we knew with 100% certainty was a Sinner, Iā€™m not certain it would be a good idea to lynch them. At this point, weā€™re awfully close to the Blackhearts winning, and I think itā€™d actually be better to vote for someone else to have a chance of hitting a Blackheart, rather than to vote for a known Sinner. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1760 "2009-05-22T22:39:00Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > So you are concerned about the number of town who keep dying everydayā€¦ but want to kill a townie for receiving the seed of sin? That makes no sense and I wish I could change my vote right now and put it on you. > > Pay attentionā€¦ being ensinned does not make you a sinner it gives you the choice of switching to the Sinnerā€™s wincon, but you remain town no matter what. The other side of the choice, THE ONE I TOOK, was to reject the Sinnerā€™s winconc and remain 100% town. The downside to choosing that is that it occupies you the next 2 Nights because you have to pray. OMGUS, but youā€™re right. I was thinking about the fact that as we get closer to the end of the day, we canā€™t have the extra sinners running around. I, however, didnā€™t think about the fact that we would then have THREE (most likely) town dying each day **UNVOTE Paul** > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Congratulations on getting your license!šŸ™‚ > > Thatā€™s a really bad reason to vote. As **paul** already explained, and as has been gone over about a billion times in the game, if **paul** is telling the truth, all he has to do is pray and the Sinners get no advantage. And I canā€™t think of any reason why he would lie about that, so I suspect that he probably is praying (which doesnā€™t mean heā€™s Town). All that this vote does is discourage people from announcing that they have been sinfected, which deprives Town of information. I think casting a vote like this is worse than running the risk of no-voting. Thank you about the Class Mā€¦and youā€™re right. Turns out I DO have WiFi access out here in the U.P. sticks. Iā€™m currently rethinking my vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=87) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=89)