# The Crimson Glyph (Werewolf/Mafia/Psychopath) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271 "2009-04-24T22:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 96
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1901 "2009-05-25T22:32:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I used to play Magic, but that was well over a decade ago. We didn’t have epic cards back then. There are only 5, one per color. The idea didn’t go over all that well. – **Peeker** , You’re up. Claim what you can, if you can. We are starting to clear things up here it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1902 "2009-05-25T22:56:51Z")
Sigh. **peeker** , I know you don’t trust me, but I recommend that you wait until Dawn to make any claim. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1903 "2009-05-25T23:34:32Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Would there be any drawback to asking the first player on my list to claim? > [@Chronos](#): > > Yes. If the first player to claim is a better power role than Mason, then you’ve given the Scum an appealing target. And even if e’s just vanilla, you’ve shortened the list of people for Scum to try if they don’t choose to target you. I read that entirely the wrong way from what you meant Chronos. :smack: I understand what you mean now. :smack: :smack: Then again, is there anything that peeker can say, that we would believe? ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1904 "2009-05-25T23:45:25Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > There are only 5, one per color. The idea didn’t go over all that well. > > – > > **Peeker** , You’re up. Claim what you can, if you can. > > We are starting to clear things up here it seems. 1. Post the full list, Meeko 2. peeker, don’t claim yet. Not until toMorrow ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1905 "2009-05-25T23:47:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Then again, is there anything that peeker can say, that we would believe? That we would believe? Maybe not. But if he is in fact Town, then the Scum will believe him. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1906 "2009-05-25T23:53:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That we would believe? Maybe not. But if he is in fact Town, then the Scum will believe him. Well simple: Peeker, if you are scum, do not claim. I am sure you weren’t going to anyway. Peeker if you are town, let me stop laughing, and ask that you don’t claim, obviously. And either way: \*\*Peeker, it would be Anti-Town to claim now. My Bad. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1907 "2009-05-26T00:41:15Z")
can i post my pm or is it a paraphrase thingy? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1908 "2009-05-26T00:53:05Z")
ok, guns n roses or coolhand. whatever. “what we’ve got here is a failure to communicate. it seems like some men you just can’t reach. so you get what we have here, which is the way he wants it. well he gets it. i don’t like this any more than you.” regarding the claim situation… yaknow, kind of sucky just to pick me. even suckier are the folks saying wait until tomorrow. what in the world do they know that would lead them to believe that i will be alive then? oh that’s right, i already figured that out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1909 "2009-05-26T01:38:07Z")
> [@](#): > > yaknow, kind of sucky just to pick me. even suckier are the folks saying wait until tomorrow. what in the world do they know that would lead them to believe that i will be alive then? > > oh that’s right, i already figured that out. Well, we can’t do anything about the information until toMorrow, anyway. No votes at Night, remember? And if you do die toNight, then we’ll find out your role, anyway. Besides which, why would you die toNight anyway? **Meeko** ’s the obvious target right now, and even if the Blackhearts choose someone else (on the assumption that **Meeko** will be protected, maybe), they’ll likely choose someone they perceive as being helpful to Town. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1910 "2009-05-26T01:42:21Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > regarding the claim situation… > > yaknow, kind of sucky just to pick me. even suckier are the folks saying wait until tomorrow. what in the world do they know that would lead them to believe that i will be alive then? > > oh that’s right, i already figured that out. If you die toNight, you wont have to claim. The exact order or claiming shouldn’t matter - so long as we have one to follow. Having structure to things gives the Scum less wiggle room. **MEEKO, please post the order you want us to claim in before Dawn.** We will start first thing toMorrow, to give us the most time for discussion, but we should have the list before sunrise. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1911 "2009-05-26T02:13:12Z")
You would think, that the person so insistent on claiming, would set an example. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1912 "2009-05-26T02:37:50Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > You would think, that the person so insistent on claiming, would set an example. Just leave it for now. It’s better for peeker and all of us to not claim until Dawn. Besides reasoning with Peeker is pointless and frustrating. He has created more chaos and pointless discussion than anyone in or out of the game at this point. Anyway, the day ends Wednesday at 3:00 PM Eastern time, right? Meeko, just let us know the order of the claims before Dawn and we’ll deal with actual claims toMorrow. Wait. Meeko, do you have a reason for _wanting_ peeker to claim before Dawn? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1913 "2009-05-26T02:46:29Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wait. Meeko, do you have a reason for _wanting_ peeker to claim before Dawn? > > 😕 I forgot how I worded the question to Chronos, leading to a false positive. (Or, well, you know what I mean) I thought that I had the go ahead, from the only other person talking at the time. I do NOT want Peeker to post. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1914 "2009-05-26T02:55:20Z")
NETA: or claim rather. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1915 "2009-05-26T03:44:16Z")
How many of each do we all think we have out? How many Sinners, BH, and Town do we have? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1916 "2009-05-26T03:49:11Z")
Quoth **Chronos** , replying to my question about his mathematical methods: > [@Chronos](#): > > Whoops, sorry I didn’t reply to that earlier. I agree that that would be a valuable result to see, but implementing it would be more programming than I’m willing to do without getting paid or graded for it. I suspect, though, that the result would be to almost completely wipe out the signal, such that all players would look almost identical. Well, that’s what I suspect, too. Which is why I conclude that if your model only works using the most extreme and simplistic assumptions about scum behavior, it may be interesting, but I don’t think I’ll be casting any votes based on it. Surely there must be a potential dissertation in here for some enterprising mathematician…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1917 "2009-05-26T03:56:06Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > (I am a dude) > > I said that because you tend to swoop in, make harsh accusations, and then disappear for a while. I’m not the only person who has noticed, and cases against bother **Thing Fish** and **Mahaloth** are starting to rear their heads. That’s what I meant by that. > > Meanwhile, **peeker** is making some strange plays. If we were both Scum it would be useful to build a case against him to save my own skin, to buy some Town cred. In peeker’s plays I see a lot of eccentricities, but I don’t see it as the scummiest game in Town. Scummy yes, but not scummiest. Sorry, dude. Due to RL time concerns, I tend to check the game once a real-life day and make a flurry of posts. I have called anti-Town behavior where I have seen it. I haven’t been lurking or avoiding saying anything substantive, like too many players in this game. Do you see anything intrinsically scummy about any of that? And since nobody voted for me at all Yesterday, or even thought out loud about doing so, I’m wondering exactly what board you may be reading where people are noticing things and making cases against me! I’ll let Mahaloth defend himself, but I think it’s a huge stretch to say that any cases worth the name are rearing their heads against him, either. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1918 "2009-05-26T03:57:56Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > **ma** is a blackheart, for sure. **peeker** , please stick to the Mafia game in this thread. You can open a Pit thread if you want to complain about your family.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1919 "2009-05-26T03:59:24Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > i also think that two of **chronos** **thing fish** and **allwalker** are as well, maybe all three. Hey, it’s a “case!” Guess I owe AllWalker an apology! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271/1920 "2009-05-26T04:08:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, that’s what I suspect, too. Which is why I conclude that if your model only works using the most extreme and simplistic assumptions about scum behavior, it may be interesting, but I don’t think I’ll be casting any votes based on it. Correction: I suspect that my method wouldn’t tell us much if we assume that _every_ Blackheart had cast zero or one vote for another Blackheart. A constraint on the _total_ number of Blackheart-on-Blackheart votes might be doable, though… Let me think about that some more. > [@](#): > > Surely there must be a potential dissertation in here for some enterprising mathematician… I actually don’t think it’s out of the question that a computer program might be able to play this game competently, provided it was a relatively simple ruleset and you could get people to place votes in a standardized-enough manner for the computer to understand. That being said, I don’t think that dabblings like the calculations I’m doing are anywhere close to being such a program, yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=95) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crimson-glyph-werewolf-mafia-psychopath/494271.md?page=97)