# “The Crown” is the metonym for a kingdom; what is the metonym for a fiefdom? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 1, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598 "2025-08-01T21:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/1 "2025-08-01T21:19:40Z")
Ok, so a metonym, for those who don’t know, is when one thing serves as a representation of a much larger thing. Like “Wall Street” instead of “the financial industry,” or “the White House” instead of “the president and/or his designees.” Does a fiefdom have such a metonym? As in, instead of saying “The Crown accepts your terms of surrender,” one says … ? ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2025, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/2 "2025-08-01T21:23:33Z")
Firing from the hip here, but I would think “My lord accepts your terms…” speaking for the boss of the territory. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/3 "2025-08-02T01:07:06Z")
(The castle, the manor, my lord, my liege) accepts your terms of surrender. Maybe one of those. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/4 "2025-08-02T01:37:46Z")
The crown is a bit different to Wall Street as it’s a symbol of power not a location associated with a particular power (e.g. The Palace, or Versailles, or wherever would be the equivalent of Wall Street) So the answer would depend on whatever the symbol of power was, e.g. in the Roman empire (absolutely totally not run by a monarch, nuhhh not even slightly, so no crowns involved) the term was The Purple (from the purple robes reserved for the emperor) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/5 "2025-08-02T01:43:56Z")
Also I don’t think The Crown was ever used formally as a synonym for the monarch, it’s an informal term for the monarchy. So lands that belong to the king are called Crown Lands but an actual treaty would say “His Majesty King John, prince of the nether regions, and protector of the prickly bits of Nace” not The Crown. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/6 "2025-08-02T02:35:12Z")
A Duke has a Dutchy. A Dutchy is/was a fiefdom. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/7 "2025-08-02T02:53:37Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > A Duke has a Dutchy. Duchy. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/8 "2025-08-02T02:57:44Z")
I confess, my first thought was [Metonym? Or synecdoche?](https://hyperbolit.com/2020/04/01/metonymy-vs-synecdoche-whats-the-difference/) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/9 "2025-08-02T04:14:44Z")
The Duke may have had a Dutchy. In which case I hope he did, in fact, pass it 'pon the left hand side. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/EsyUa63NM1E/maxresdefault.jpg "Musical Youth - Pass The Dutchie") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsyUa63NM1E) BTW, nobles also had crowns. > **[Coronet](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet)** > > In British heraldry, a coronet is a type of crown that is a mark of rank of non-reigning members of the royal family and peers. In other languages, this distinction is not made, and usually the same word for crown is used irrespective of rank (German: Krone, Dutch: Kroon, Swedish: Krona, French: Couronne, Italian: Corona, etc.) In this use, the English coronet is a purely technical term for all heraldic images of crowns not used by a sovereign. A Coronet is another type of crown, but is reserve... ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/10 "2025-08-02T06:57:04Z")
“The estate” might serve. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/11 "2025-08-02T07:42:07Z")
“The Manor”, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/12 "2025-08-02T11:08:11Z")
“Manor” sounds a bit Kray (or copper) -ish. But perhaps I’ve been watching the wrong sort of TV. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/13 "2025-08-02T12:29:29Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Also I don’t think The Crown was ever used formally as a synonym for the monarch, it’s an informal term for the monarchy. Don’t court cases get styled “The Crown vs. \_\_\_\_\_”? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/14 "2025-08-02T13:50:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Don’t court cases get styled “The Crown Nope they are R (for Rex or Regina).vs … The organization that brings the prosecution (equivalent of the district attorney’s office) is called the crown prosecution service but that’s just the traditional way to refer to something that belongs to the monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/15 "2025-08-02T13:56:11Z")
“The monarchy’ here meaning “the State’, i e., “the Crown in Parliament”, not the person of whoever happens to be the monarch. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/16 "2025-08-02T14:24:01Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > “The monarchy’ here meaning “the State’, i e., “the Crown in Parliament”, not the person of whoever happens to be the monarch Though it can be used both ways. As in Crown Prosecution Service it means it belongs to the monarchy being synonymous with the state (the prosecutions they bring would be called The People vs… in the US) on the other hand Crown Lands belong to the monarchy personally they are not state or public lands (the income from them goes to the monarch personally not the exchequer) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/17 "2025-08-02T14:59:03Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > on the other hand Crown Lands belong to the monarchy personally they are not state or public lands (the income from them goes to the monarch personally not the exchequer) My understanding is - not quite. The[Crown Estates](https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/) are held in trust “for the nation”, the income going to the Treasury, except for a proportion allocated to the Royal Household for “Head of State expenses”. The[Duchy of Lancaster estates](https://www.duchyoflancaster.co.uk/faqs/) (capital) are held in trust for the monarch, who receives that income for whatever purposes they wish. Likewise income from the [Duchy of Cornwall estates](https://duchyofcornwall.org/page/about-us/) goes to the heir. But in both those cases there’s some degree of Treasury and Parliamentary oversight, at least of capital transactions. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/18 "2025-08-02T16:45:20Z")
As I understand, “Crown lands” in Canada are the lands that are part of the country but not sold to private individuals, or otherwise had title given to anyone else. (Typically those vast uninhabited areas of the north that are not explicity part of indigineous reservations.) It’s the same concept in name as “Crown prosecutors” and refers to the state or province, not the monarch personally. (A contrasting counter-example might be the Congo, which belonged(?) originally to King Leopold personally, not the country of Belgium.) Perhap the answer to the OP would be “the manor” as a stand-in for the local lord? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/19 "2025-08-02T19:45:02Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > “Manor” sounds a bit Kray (or copper) -ish. > > But perhaps I’ve been watching the wrong sort of TV. You have… > **[To the Manor Born](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_the_Manor_Born)** > > To the Manor Born is a BBC television sitcom that first aired on BBC1 from 1979 to 1981. A special one-off episode was produced in 2007. Starring Penelope Keith and Peter Bowles, the first 20 episodes and the 2007 special were written by Peter Spence, the creator, while the final episode in 1981 was written by script associate Christopher Bond. The title is a play on the phrase "to the manner born," from Shakespeare's Hamlet ("Though I am a native here and to the manner born, it is a custom m... ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598/20 "2025-08-02T20:26:52Z")
In the Commonwealth kingdoms (including the UK), the term “the Crown” is anything but informal. It’s a legal term of art, referring to the state as a perpetually existing corporation which is represented by one individual (the monarch, hence a “sole corporation”) but distinct in its existence from the person of that monarch. Also, at least in England, the “R” in criminal case names is often pronounced as “the Crown”, as in _R v Smith_, which would be pronounced as “the Crown against Smith” (contrast this with civil cases, where the _v_ would be pronounced “and”.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crown-is-the-metonym-for-a-kingdom-what-is-the-metonym-for-a-fiefdom/1021598.md?page=2)