# The Crusades again? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137 "2002-06-09T21:02:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/21 "2002-06-11T09:52:28Z")
Well, I suppose you could start with the group of Christians who got murdered by the Crusaders because the Crusaders assumed the ones they were murdering were Musliims based on their clothing. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/22 "2002-06-11T14:27:49Z")
Is that worse than if they really HAD been Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/23 "2002-06-11T16:21:49Z")
No, it’s not worse and it’s certainly not better. It’s merely an indication of the prejudice, not the religion, that was driving the Crusades. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/24 "2002-06-11T17:09:41Z")
This is completely off-topic, but I just have to say that it is quite disconcerting to see such a well-written and unflappable poster with the handle of **Tamerlane**. What, was **Gaiseric The Vandal** taken? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/25 "2002-06-11T17:19:40Z")
I’m just saying that the Crusades were no better and no worse than any other war during that era. Rape, pillaging, looting, civilian murders, etc. were pretty much standard in just about every war in just about every part of the world during that time. The Crusades were not about some effort to wipe out all the Arabs in the world, or about wiping out Islam. It was about protecting what they perceived as threats to their Holy Sites and ability to have pilgramages to them (see Tamerlane’s post), a need for a safety valve for young fighters who weren’t going to get anything in inheritance, and a good old desire for land and wealth. Prejudice didn’t have much to do with it, outside of the fact that most wars during that time (and during modern times) occured out of “prejudice”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/26 "2002-06-11T17:40:01Z")
**brujo** replied to the OP: \*“There has been a series of Christian bashing letters to the editor in the local paper…” I missed this thread earlier, but can you give us a cite for this. I’m surprised that a newspaper would run anti-Christian editorials…\* Letters to the editor != editorials. Letters to the editor are unsolicited comments from readers, which are in no way expected to represent views espoused by the newspaper’s management, and many of them are indeed quite nutty. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/27 "2002-06-11T19:04:56Z")
Kimstu I must have missed that. I usually skim letters to the editors when I read the print version of the paper. I’m gonna start paying more attention to those to see if they are as weird. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/28 "2002-06-12T00:12:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amok \* > This is completely off-topic, but I just have to say that it is quite disconcerting to see such a well-written and unflappable poster with the handle of **Tamerlane**. What, was **Gaiseric The Vandal** taken? Hey, that _would_ be a good handle :D. A misunderstood guy, Gaiseric. Quite brilliant in his way. And the depredations of the Vandals have probably been exaggerated a bit. I believe more modern research has concluded that the most traumatic damage to North Africa occurred in the late 11th-13th centuries after the badly enfeebled Fatimids unleashed ( and gave passage to ) a number Bedouin tribes on Ifriqiya ( Tunisia ) to punish them for repudiating Fatimd rule and swearing allegiance to the Abbasid Caliph. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/29 "2002-06-12T04:41:10Z")
Mass murder and destruction in the name of a deity? Same old shit. How’s that for a historical generalization? ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/30 "2002-06-12T05:08:38Z")
Anybody got numbers on how many people have been slaughtered in the name of which gods? I’m betting the Christian one has the highest body count. (even without counting the Holocaust). When “Christians” stop telling me I’m going to go to Hell, I’ll start considering them rational and/or moral. Too many “Christians” seem to think that evil is a virtue. Sorry, **Poly** , but you do seem to be in the minority… ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/31 "2002-06-12T05:25:29Z")
Well, happyheathen, with all due respect, you shouldn’t single out Christians. Many religions have carried out campaigns to exterminate those who do not believe as they do. Onward Christian soldiers, et al… ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/32 "2002-06-12T05:27:44Z")
Is the Christian one the same as the Jewish one and the Muslim one? Or are you counting each of these separate? ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/33 "2002-06-12T06:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*Is the Christian one the same as the Jewish one and the Muslim one? Or are you counting each of these separate? \*\* [ul]You’re right **Neurotik**. It is quite a stupid concept isn’t it? And you are not going to HELL **happyheathen**. ;)[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/34 "2002-06-12T15:38:40Z")
Who was saying it’s a stupid concept? I was asking happyheathen how he was breaking down his stats. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/35 "2002-06-12T21:27:52Z")
I’m NOT? Damn, and I had my little heart set… (and yes, for those not noticing, the Christian god is not the same as the Jewish god, which is not the same as the Muslim god). And, I was ASKING for stats, not offering them. Yes, many religions have persecuted - the Christians were the ones with the best weapons and ships in which to transport them - tremendous advantages… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/36 "2002-06-12T21:39:24Z")
See? God was on our side. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/37 "2002-06-13T04:19:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > \*\*And, I was ASKING for stats, not offering them. > \*\* Oops, I meant to ask you how you WANTED them broken down, not how you WERE breaking them down. Because…technically…the Jewish god, the Christian god, and the Muslim god are all the same. So if you were counting it that way, Yahweh aka Allah aka God, etc. would have a much higher body count than if you counted them seperately. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137/38 "2002-06-13T08:17:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*See? God was on our side. \*\* Which “our” was that? - RCC was the largest benefactor of the technologies - used frequently against other Chrustuans - how did the “Christian” (RCC) v. “Heretic” (Protestant) body counts add up, say 1520 - 1680? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-crusades-again/113137.md?page=1)