# The cultural Glitch in the Matrix moment you're most convinced did exist. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942 "2018-03-21T03:24:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/41 "2018-03-21T18:59:16Z")
This thread now has me believing that Tom Hanks was a classmate of Luke Skywalker. Get it? _Big_ / Biggs … conflate some memories, add a few years, make a few public references that get picked up by Twitter followers and bingo, it’s a widely-believed historical fact. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/42 "2018-03-21T19:05:25Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The Mandela effect as applied to Mandela is very easy to explain as confusion with Steve Biko, a South African anti-apartheid activist who was arrested in 1977 and died in prison after a beating. Peter Gabriel recorded a tribute to him in 1980, and it was a minor hit. It wasn’t quite famous enough that everyone knew who Biko was, but it was pervasive enough that people kind of knew there was some anti-apartheid guy who died in prison. Nelson Mandela’s name was more well known, so it’s not surprising that people mixed up the names. Biko was also the subject of the movie “Cry Freedom,” with Kevin Kline and Denzel Washington. It was the first Oscar nomination for the latter, actually, and Biko’s deatn in prison is the central event of the story. I don’t think there was a movie about Nelson Mandela until some time after that, so that might have contributed to the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/43 "2018-03-21T19:17:50Z")
For years and years I kept “remembering” that I had seen an alternative version of _The Wizard of Oz_ in which, instead of the wizard towards the end convincing the tin man, lion, and scarecrow that they just need a testimonial watch, a diploma, and a medal, the wizard feeds the lion “a bowl of courage”, stuffs the scarecrow’s head with pins and needles which poke out when he concentrates, and does something else for the tin man. Turns out I was remembering the book, not the movie. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/44 "2018-03-21T19:32:23Z")
> [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](#): > > I only heard about this phenomenon recently, and it’s complete anathema to me. All the “Free Nelson Mandela” stuff, his release from prison, becoming President of South Africa…but people were surprised when he died because they apparently thought he’d died in prison? It really feels as silly as suggesting that Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney died in the 60s. > > I can only conclude it’s down to different levels of news coverage in different areas of the world. Well, obviously nobody remembers hearing that Nelson Mandela died in prison, and nobody remembers hearing that people remember hearing that Nelson Mandela died in prison, but people remembering hearing that people remember hearing that people remember hearing that he died in prison? I can sort of see that. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/45 "2018-03-21T20:00:23Z")
There have been a [few](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282385) [threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279595) on this board alone talking about a scene in **The Empire Strikes Back** where a snowspeeder kamikaze-crashes into an AT-AT. I believed it myself for a long time. Best I can figure is, I and everyone else mentally crossed the snowspeeder/AT-AT scene with the scene from **Return of the Jedi** where an A-wing crashes into the bridge of the super star destroyer. ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/46 "2018-03-21T20:14:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Biko was also the subject of the movie “Cry Freedom,” with Kevin Kline and Denzel Washington. It was the first Oscar nomination for the latter, actually, and Biko’s deatn in prison is the central event of the story. I don’t think there was a movie about Nelson Mandela until some time after that, so that might have contributed to the confusion. I’d have hoped that a movie about Steve Biko would have been remembered as a movie about Steve Biko though! ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/47 "2018-03-21T20:28:22Z")
I’m curious now about how pockets of cultural misinformation may be concentrated. Do I find the Mandela mistake so stunning because I’m British and the media dealt with his life differently here, or simply because I’m me and the immediate influences in my life meant I never heard the inaccurate reports of his demise? It _feels_ like most Brits never had the opportunity to make that particular mistake - the Nelson Mandela 70th Birthday Concert in London was like another Live Aid - but I obviously have no actual survey data. I was very surprised though to find anyone thought he was long dead, and the sources which talk about it being a commonly held belief seem to be overwhelmingly American…but as I say, this is just my experience. For now though, that’s what I’m working with! Of course, I now wonder what my countrymen and I all think we remember which would bewilder other nations… ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/48 "2018-03-21T20:33:08Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > There have been a [few](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282385) [threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279595) on this board alone talking about a scene in **The Empire Strikes Back** where a snowspeeder kamikaze-crashes into an AT-AT. I believed it myself for a long time. Best I can figure is, I and everyone else mentally crossed the snowspeeder/AT-AT scene with the scene from **Return of the Jedi** where an A-wing crashes into the bridge of the super star destroyer. I believe that, like the Biggs scene from _Star Wars_, the kamikaze snowspeeder was described in the novelization of _Empire Strikes Back_, and people are transforming their memory of reading it into a memory of having seen it. But I no longer own a copy of the _Empire_ novelization, and I can’t check to confirm it. So even _that_ may be a false memory! ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/49 "2018-03-21T20:53:35Z")
I once argued tooth and nail that the song The Promise was by the band Erasure. I was absolutely positive I was right. Nope. It was a one hit wonder called When in Rome. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/50 "2018-03-21T21:05:42Z")
I remember reading a entertainment article that made it sound like there were two Harry Potter and the Sorcerers Stone movies being produced. One in American and one in British. Am I the only one who remembers that the early estimated casualties for 9/11 were at least 50,000? My grandmother made a sausage and rice dish who’s name I don’t remember. The only thing I’m sure of is it wasn’t Jambalaya. She also made something she called taco salad that consisted mostly of beans. I’ve never seen another taco salad like it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/51 "2018-03-21T21:07:29Z")
The fake advertising campaign for a product that doesn’t exist was the plot of an episode of _Duck Tales_. The campaign is so successful that Scrooge McDuck buys up the company, which still didn’t even have a product, leaving the creator of the campaign forced to come up with a product to match it (I think it ended up being chewing gum). I wouldn’t swear that that’s the origin, though: They could have been re-using a plot from something else. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/52 "2018-03-21T21:32:42Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I saw Ben Vereen on a TV show the other day. It surprised me to see him, as I thought he had died. I remember talking about [Zoobilee Zoo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoobilee_Zoo) on Facebook when it happened. > > Or not. I thought he was dead for awhile, too. He nearly died back in 1992, which probably explains it. He had a really bad day. From his [wiki:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Vereen#Personal_life) > [@](#): > > In 1992, Vereen suffered three accidents in one day, when his car hit a tree causing him to hit his head on the roof of his car, then he suffered a stroke while he was walking on a Malibu highway, apparently veering into the road where he was struck by a car driven by record producer David Foster. His critical injuries (including a broken leg) required him to undergo arduous physical rehabilitation in the ensuing months. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/53 "2018-03-21T21:56:39Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > Am I the only one who remembers that the early estimated casualties for 9/11 were at least 50,000? Heck, there are people today who still believe the hijackers entered the U.S. through Canada or had been safely based in Canada. Compared to that, an overestimate of casualties (I’d wager you could only approach 50,000 casualties if the Towers had not been evacuated at all) is pretty minor. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/54 "2018-03-21T22:17:22Z")
> [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](#): > > It really feels as silly as suggesting that Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney died in the 60s. But Dylan was injured in a motorcycle crash and virtually disappeared for more than a year. It wasn’t all that silly to think he had died. McCartney? Okay, that was silly. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/55 "2018-03-21T22:45:12Z")
I think the earliest casualty estimates for the World Trade Center attacks were just the number of people who worked in the WTC. Of course, better estimates were very quickly produced, but there’s always misinformation in the immediate wake of an event like that. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/56 "2018-03-21T22:45:52Z")
I got my own lesson in fallible memories when I learned that a book episode describing a certain guard that was especially loathed by the prisoners was NOT from _One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich_ but from Elie Wiesel’s _Night_. I have a very good memory. But if presented with facts contradicting my brain I don’t go around claiming a super-secret movie print was shown at just my theater, or reality was altered by the Illuminati. (I guess it’s a corollary of the Dunning–Kruger effect.) ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/57 "2018-03-21T23:34:06Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > But Dylan was injured in a motorcycle crash and virtually disappeared for more than a year. It wasn’t all that silly to think he had died. > > McCartney? Okay, that was silly. Touché. I _so_ nearly went with Trump dying in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/58 "2018-03-22T01:22:24Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > In that vein I SWEAR Ann Jillian died of breast cancer…nope…she survived. I remember Valerie Harper dying years ago. Nope – she’s just been sick on and off for the past decade. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/59 "2018-03-22T01:37:46Z")
Is there an _inverse_ Mandela effect…instead of everybody remembering something that didn’t happen, everybody _forgot_ something that did? Does anybody remember when American Motors and Howard Johnson’s Restaurants went out of business? You remember these all over the place in the 70s…and then…? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942/60 "2018-03-22T01:38:53Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I remember reading a entertainment article that made it sound like there were two Harry Potter and the Sorcerers Stone movies being produced. One in American and one in British. Every scene where the dialogue mentions the Philosopher’s Stone was recorded a second time with them saying Sorcerer’s Stone. And aside from the title, those were the only differences. DVDs too. Not sure if they still maintain that, seems like the kind of thing where they ought to quietly change it back to Philosopher’s Stone everywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cultural-glitch-in-the-matrix-moment-youre-most-convinced-did-exist/810942.md?page=4)