# The Culture Wars' New Front: U.S. History Classes in Texas (WSJ Article) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050 "2009-07-14T22:10:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/141 "2009-07-16T20:20:52Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Working at the state level is fine, but I think those who care could do more at the local level. Even if you lose, you can sensitize people to the existence of religious dogmatism on school boards. This is abolutely true. A good friend of mine happens to be a public school social studies teacher in Dallas. This latest mess from the board has horrfied and galvanized him and his colleagues to make additional efforts in the community to combat this sort of nonsense. The board does not design the curricula, it simply votes on them. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/142 "2009-07-16T21:45:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/DN-socialstudies\_09tex.ART0.State.Edition1.4bfaaf7.html](http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/DN-socialstudies_09tex.ART0.State.Edition1.4bfaaf7.html) > > Agenda, much? He’ll be drummed out of the party. Shouldn’t it be democrat values, not democratic? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/143 "2009-07-17T03:37:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > … So what about the other members of the board of education that want to change the curriculum? > > David Barton … David Barton? :eek: The David Barton, who’s great contribution to the subject of American history, by his own admission over ten years ago, is [making shit up](http://candst.tripod.com/bartchro.htm)? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/144 "2009-07-17T03:49:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > A deity, but not the Christian one. Teaching that the founders were atheists would be just as incorrect as teaching that they were devout Christians. Even Paine explicitly said that he was not an atheist, and gave a reason why there had to be a god - the structure of the solar system. What he’d be today is an interesting question. Do you think that Christianity and understanding the structure of the solar system are contradictory, or have any tension whatsoever? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/145 "2009-07-17T05:00:48Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Do you think that Christianity and understanding the structure of the solar system are contradictory, or have any tension whatsoever? Well, AFAIR some Christian sects still defend the view of the universe according to Genesis. Incidentally, as we get to the 40th anniversary of the Apollo mission, let us remember those astronauts that demonstrated that cracking trough the firmament where the moon was did not cause the water above to fall down on us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/146 "2009-07-17T05:30:41Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > David Barton? :eek: The David Barton, who’s great contribution to the subject of American history, by his own admission over ten years ago, is [making shit up](http://candst.tripod.com/bartchro.htm)? > > CMC fnord! Yes, that David Barton. More from the [Texas Freedom Network](http://www.tfn.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5778): > [@](#): > > Barton, former vice chairman of the Texas Republican Party, is a self-styled “historian” without any formal training in the field. He argues that separation of church and state is a “myth” and that the nation’s laws should be based on Scripture. He says, for example, that the Bible forbids taxes on income and capital gains. Yet even such groups as Texas Baptists Committed and the Baptist Joint Committee have sharply criticized Barton’s interpretations of the Constitution and history. > > Barton also acknowledges having used in his publications and speeches nearly a dozen quotes he has attributed to the nation’s Founders even though he can’t identify any primary sources showing that they really said them… > > Marshall has also attacked Roman Catholic and mainline Protestant churches. In his call for a spiritual revival in America last year, he called traditional mainline Protestantism an “institutionally fossilized, Bible-rejecting shell of Christianity.” The Baptist groups mentioned in the first paragraph consist of folks most of us would consider fairly conservative. But they oppose the politicization (or Republicanization) of the Southern Baptist Convention and staunchly support separation of Church & State. ETA: The TFN website is not shy about using the phrase “Culture War.” The article in the OP seems to have used TFN as a resource. Good for them! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/147 "2009-07-17T16:01:51Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Do you think that Christianity and understanding the structure of the solar system are contradictory, or have any tension whatsoever? You should read the book. The structure of the Solar System was why Paine believed in a god - it’s a very traditional god of the gaps argument. The reason he didn’t believe in Christianity was due to an analysis of the Bible, where he pointed out many of the contradictions and absurdities we are still pointing out today. He was clever enough to realize that even seeing the need for some god didn’t mean there was a need for a particular god. I suspect that someone understand Kepler and Newton could have put him right even back then, but Paine was not a highly educated man and certainly neither a mathematician or a scientist. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/148 "2009-07-17T16:05:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, AFAIR some Christian sects still defend the view of the universe according to Genesis. > > Incidentally, as we get to the 40th anniversary of the Apollo mission, let us remember those astronauts that demonstrated that cracking trough the firmament where the moon was did not cause the water above to fall down on us. > > 🙂 In 1967 a JW used to visit my grandmother - futilely, but she liked company. I sometimes came to visit when she was there, and this woman saw me with an E. E. Smith book, and told me that God wouldn’t allow us into space, since heaven was for God and Earth was for man. (There is a verse about this.) It inspired me to write a story for my creative writing class about God striking down the first lunar astronauts due to this - it ends with the lightning bolts. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/149 "2009-07-17T16:36:42Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > A lot of ink has been spilled in the past 50 years about this process. As it turns out, it is probably not democratic at all. I mean that people have to believe in them and pass the stories on for them to propagate. > [@](#): > > A lot of ink has also been spilled on rights theory, and some of it is quite interesting. [This](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rights/) is a pretty good place to start reading. Interesting thanks. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050/150 "2009-07-17T17:04:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In 1967 a JW used to visit my grandmother - futilely, but she liked company. I sometimes came to visit when she was there, and this woman saw me with an E. E. Smith book, and told me that God wouldn’t allow us into space, since heaven was for God and Earth was for man. (There is a verse about this.) It inspired me to write a story for my creative writing class about God striking down the first lunar astronauts due to this - it ends with the lightning bolts. I LOVE that. Brilliant! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-culture-wars-new-front-u-s-history-classes-in-texas-wsj-article/503050.md?page=7)