# The cure to soulless crushing modern society is a life of narcissistic sociopathic hedonism (or why humans can't have nice things) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2026, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967 "2026-02-25T18:31:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/101 "2026-03-13T16:09:18Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Given the diversity of the human experience, no utopia will work long term. As innumerable works of fiction have pointed out, “perfect” is fragile. So utopias have to be unchanging, which either is an inevitable death sentence or would be a stasis comparable to a fly preserved in amber. And as innumerable works of fiction have also pointed out, the strictures necessary for a utopia are often tyrannical to the point of making it a dystopia. Maybe not openly cruel but mercilessly non-negotiable. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/102 "2026-03-13T16:30:11Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I don’t know too much about Stoicism but I’d be curious to compare/contrast with Zen Buddhism. When I was sitting zazen daily, it was like nothing could get to me. It’s not overly complicated. It’s a philosophy focusing on developing personal virtue, resilience, and tranquility by focusing only on what is within our control. It teaches that, while we cannot control external events, we can control our responses to them, leading to a life of wisdom, justice, courage, and temperance. It’s deeper than that, but that’s the gist of it. As Tyler Durden said, “Just. Let. Go.” Control is an illusion. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/103 "2026-03-13T16:58:15Z")
The challenge is figuring out what is actually within my control. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/104 "2026-03-13T17:20:14Z")
Neibuhr’s serenity prayer has three parts: Accept the things I cannot change, courage to change those I can, and wisdom to know the difference. And yes, the third is usually the toughest. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/105 "2026-03-13T22:06:04Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The challenge is figuring out what is actually within my control. Everything in your mind - your perception of and reaction to external physical events. There are some external things you can impose your will upon, but essentially no external circumstance can affect your mind, if you are strong enough. See [Viktor Frankl](https://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/0807014273) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/106 "2026-03-13T22:09:44Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Everything in your mind - your perception of and reaction to external physical events. > > There are some external things you can impose your will upon, but essentially no external circumstance can affect your mind, if you are strong enough. That’s not how the human brain works, and it’s a dangerous and often destructive belief that leads to hostility and abuse towards people are “weak” and suffer from trauma like PTSD. It also contributes to homophobia and transphobia, as it is implicitly asserting people could just choose not to be if they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/107 "2026-03-13T22:14:06Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > There are some external things you can impose your will upon, but essentially no external circumstance can affect your mind, if you are strong enough. I’ve got an icepick here that says different. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/108 "2026-03-13T22:23:40Z")
That’s Stoicism talking - not me. Of course there are extenuating circumstances. But I assume it means as one encounters the stress of everyday living. If you still want to push back, talk to Marcus Aurelius or Tim Ferriss. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/109 "2026-03-13T22:24:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s not how the human brain works, and it’s a dangerous and often destructive belief that leads to hostility and abuse towards people are “weak” and suffer from trauma like PTSD. It also contributes to homophobia and transphobia, as it is implicitly asserting people could just choose not to be if they wanted. That’s not the way Stoicism works. You’re confusing it with ‘pull yourself up by your bootstraps’ people. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/110 "2026-03-13T22:45:58Z")
Gotta love a guy who references Frankl. I’m a fan. Zen kinda aims for the same goal, but it’s more by seeing into the impermanent and empty nature of reality through meditation. If you see things as they are, the logic goes, then you won’t suffer. (By suffering I refer to a kind of mental state, not physical pain.) But based on what you’re saying it sounds like the fundamental idea of not being too attached to things is pretty similar. I have found Zen useful for noticing the stories I tell myself without getting wrapped up in them. It has helped me with anger, anxiety, and depression. Usually when I sit down to meditate after a a long time I have this moment like, “Oh, right. I forgot all of this stuff I’ve been stressing over is bullshit.” ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/111 "2026-03-13T23:04:33Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Zen kinda aims for the same goal, but it’s more by seeing into the impermanent and empty nature of reality through meditation. If you see things as they are, the logic goes, then you won’t suffer. (By suffering I refer to a kind of mental state, not physical pain.) Agree. I agree with Zen as a discipline. I used to try to practice it in my younger days. My problem was my mind drifts. To be fair, it does with stoicism as well. But I keep trying to improve myself. Thanks for your post. Especially this bit: “ I have found Zen useful for noticing the stories I tell myself without getting wrapped up in them. It has helped me with anger, anxiety, and depression.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2026, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/112 "2026-03-13T23:53:13Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > As innumerable works of fiction have pointed out, “perfect” is fragile. So utopias have to be unchanging, which either is an inevitable death sentence or would be a stasis comparable to a fly preserved in amber. And as innumerable works of fiction have also pointed out, the strictures necessary for a utopia are often tyrannical to the point of making it a dystopia. Maybe not openly cruel but mercilessly non-negotiable. “I have a great idea for a perfect society and I don’t care how many boots I have to stomp onto faces to achieve it!” is a common theme in both fiction and real life. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2026, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/113 "2026-03-14T00:35:58Z")
This is just a matter of definition. My contention is that almost all those fictional portrayals are dystopias, not utopias. The only fictional portrayal which I would classify as even close to a utopia in popular western fiction is that of the Federation from Star Trek. Even WRT Star Trek, I’d limit it to those Star Treks from the 20th century (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT). ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2026, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/114 "2026-03-14T00:41:18Z")
I wouldn’t even call the Federation of TOS or TNG-era a utopia; just a damned sight better than 21st century standards, to much the same degree that the 21st century is (mostly) an improvement over the 16th century. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2026, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/115 "2026-03-14T00:55:00Z")
[The Culture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture) is the sci-fi setting that I see most often called close to a genuine utopia. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2026, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/116 "2026-03-14T01:27:57Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I wouldn’t even call the Federation of TOS or TNG-era a utopia; just a damned sight better than 21st century standards, to much the same degree that the 21st century is (mostly) an improvement over the 16th century. Seriously. What do we actually know about day to day life in the Federation other than it’s much more technologically advanced than ours and is in a perpetual state of interplanetary war? I have to wonder what that does to the average person’s psyche to be living in this post-scarcity society and turning on the news to learn some colony just got assimilated by the Borg or some starship went down with all hands in a Klingon attack or yet another giant killer space probe is on a direct course for Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2026, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/117 "2026-03-14T02:11:04Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I have to wonder what that does to the average person’s psyche to be living in this post-scarcity society and turning on the news to learn some colony just got assimilated by the Borg or some starship went down with all hands in a Klingon attack or yet another giant killer space probe is on a direct course for Earth. “Every time, _every time_ they launch a ship named _Enterprise_ this stuff _starts happening._ We need to retire the name.” ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2026, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/118 "2026-03-14T15:24:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Seriously. What do we actually know about day to day life in the Federation other than it’s much more technologically advanced than ours and is in a perpetual state of interplanetary war? As a kid, I was watching The Rifleman, my dad reading nearby on the couch. Thinking of how Lucas gets along with his son, I remarked, “Isn’t the Rifleman a great guy?” My father dryly remarked, “he kills someone every day”. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2026, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/119 "2026-03-14T22:13:46Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > This is just a matter of definition. My contention is that almost all those fictional portrayals are dystopias, not utopias. The only fictional portrayal which I would classify as even close to a utopia in popular western fiction is that of the Federation from Star Trek. Even WRT Star Trek, I’d limit it to those Star Treks from the 20th century (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT). Dystopia makes for better media than utopia because in dystopia you have protagonists fighting the antagonistic system. A movie where everyone is happy and content would be boring. The world today is far from perfect, but in the vast majority of ways it is better than it was 300 years ago (except for things like the environment). The world 100 years won’t be perfect but in most ways it will be better. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2026, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967/120 "2026-03-14T22:26:10Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Dystopia makes for better media than utopia because in dystopia you have protagonists fighting the antagonistic system. A movie where everyone is happy and content would be boring. People always find a reason to be unhappy. And a common theme in scify is that in attempting to create ideal societies where they eliminate all problems, sometimes even death itself, that society becomes so stagnated, shallow, and soulless that they become intolerable. Or the controls society has to put in place to maintain such “happiness” amount to a Faustian bargain. IOW, everyone is only happy and content because they’re all on drugs, or the take all the unhappy people and reprogram their brains or disintegrate them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cure-to-soulless-crushing-modern-society-is-a-life-of-narcissistic-sociopathic-hedonism-or-why-humans-cant-have-nice-things/1027967.md?page=7)