# The curious bitter fruits of online dating **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 31, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486 "2010-03-31T19:11:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/41 "2010-04-02T15:36:09Z")
> [@Baby\_Driver](#): > > I think calling one to three days after if you’re reasonably interested is appropriate. But like **Cat Fight** said, propose a date at a set time in the future and let her respond. No…relinquishes too much control. Women have the lions share of the control at the beginning/before the beginning of the relationship. Don’t give her any more. Giving time for woman to think about accepting or rejecting you is not optimal for the guy (though women love it). She needs to spend more time wondering if/when you will call and less time thinking about whether to give you a chance or not. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/42 "2010-04-02T16:50:13Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think you need to meet a better class of women, **BlinkingDuck.** Or maybe a more mature class of women. > > Okay, maybe that’s not fair; maybe that’s how women work in your experience. In my experience (and being a woman), I didn’t play games like that, and I would not encourage any of my female acquaintances to do so (and I don’t think they ever did; at least, they didn’t tell me if they did). Let’s be honest with ourselves, EVERYONE plays the dating game. Nobody’s above it. That’s why people don’t go on dates and talk about how they pick their noses when they’re alone and how much they enjoy smelling their own farts. A woman will conceal her facial flaws and won’t go out in sweatpants, even though that’s the way you’ll see her most of the time once you’re in a relationship with her. So to imply that managing someone’s impression of you through frequency of contact is dishonest or immature is a bit misguided, unless you present yourself exactly as you really are to all your dates, in which case I admire you. And wish you the best of luck. The broader point is that there isn’t enough information to tell whether the OP scared her off through his actions or she wasn’t interested in the first place. Those movie plans were awfully specific for a girl who wasn’t interested. If he had said, “Hey, let’s do something next week” and she said “Yeah, how about a movie” then he scared her off somehow. If he had said “Hey, let’s see a movie next week,” and she responded “Well…I don’t know when I’ll be free. I’ll have to see,” she wasn’t interested. But it’s impossible to tell without a little more detail. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/43 "2010-04-02T21:44:15Z")
Well, there’s putting your best foot forward, then there’s playing games. Wearing a clean shirt on a date is putting your best foot forward (I assume, as most people do, that you see the best of someone at the start of a relationship). What **BlinkingDuck** is describing is playing games (not responding honestly to another person). ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/44 "2010-04-02T23:13:23Z")
I am in the same scenario. I am trying to get the roofing men that did work on my clients house to return a phone call. It’s been 2 days and they don’t call back. She has left several messages. They did work on her roof and it still leaks. She has already paid them and now she is on me about why they are not calling back. I don’t have the heart to tell her that they are not interested in fixing the problem she paid them to fix. They have their money and are down the road. Looks like she needs to find another roofing company. You need to find another person to date. The one you went out with isn’t returning your calls because she doesn’t want another date. Don’t give up and keep looking for the right one! ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/45 "2010-04-03T00:24:06Z")
Also, I hate to say it, but the big advantage in online dating is the numbers game. Taking the shotgun approach (while still sticking to a ‘target’ of preferences) means that hopefully you are going on more dates with different women. When this happens, having one leaving you hanging isn’t a big deal. For me, for example, knowing I would be meeting 3 people in the following two weeks made me more confident. If someone was really great but not interested, I didn’t dwell on it because I knew I was meeting more people. The more proactive you can be, as well as the right dating website can make dealing with these situations a lot easier. Believe it or not, the best dating site I’ve used was eHarmony. I guess I answered the questions well- I’m somewhere between an Atheist/Agnostic (depending on my mood) and all the women it matched me with/went on dates with were the same way. They were also all career-oriented, smart, assertive women. Just keep it up, try not to get jaded, cynical, or burnt out. The more confident and assertive you are, the better your chances will be! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/46 "2010-04-03T02:25:41Z")
> [@DivineComedienne](#): > > I agree it’s “easier” to not call or text ever again - most people do tend to try to avoid unpleasant situations - but what’s “passive agressive” about not responding? She’s trying to AVOID hurting your feelings and putting herself, and you, in an uncomfortable situation if she tells you to your face that she is not attracted to you (ouch). How is NOT saying that being hurtful? > > So this begs the question - if “non-response” is not the way to handle the situation, then what is the appropriate, direct, upfront response that the OP’s date should have used to tell him she’s just not that interested in him, that would have NOT hurt his feelings and ended things on a positive note? Because it leaves the guy hanging. A guy that has not been told no tends to think he still has a chance. He may even still be planning on seeing you. He may even take the time to set up a next date. I don’t understand why you think it would hurt less to find something out later than before you get all your hopes up. The difference is just that the woman isn’t around when you finally get it and are hurt. She’s doing it for herself, not for you. As for the proper response: When I say “Hey, do you want to see each other again?” You say, “No.” Nothing hurtful about the word no. You want to be softer? Try “I just don’t think it’s working out,” or even “I think we’d make better friends,” IF you’re honest about that. Yes, I know all women do this crap. That doesn’t mean it’s not annoying. Just please don’t justify it by saying you’re doing us a favor. You’re doing it because YOU don’t like confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![DivineComedienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c67d28/32.png) [@DivineComedienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DivineComedienne)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/47 "2010-04-03T02:43:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > As for the proper response: When I say “Hey, do you want to see each other again?” You say, “No.” Nothing hurtful about the word no. You want to be softer? Try “I just don’t think it’s working out,” or even “I think we’d make better friends,” IF you’re honest about that. > > Yes, I know all women do this crap. That doesn’t mean it’s not annoying. Just please don’t justify it by saying you’re doing us a favor. You’re doing it because YOU don’t like confrontation. Good suggestion, although both your softer phrases are still vague and give a guy an opening to try to convince her she should give him a chance. My usual phrase is, “I think you’re a great guy, and I enjoyed our date, but I just don’t sense any real chemistry between us.” By the way, it’s not just women who avoid confrontation, men do this too - “I’ll call you.” ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/48 "2010-04-03T12:06:30Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Also, I hate to say it, but the big advantage in online dating is the numbers game. Taking the shotgun approach (while still sticking to a ‘target’ of preferences) means that hopefully you are going on more dates with different women. When this happens, having one leaving you hanging isn’t a big deal. For me, for example, knowing I would be meeting 3 people in the following two weeks made me more confident. If someone was really great but not interested, I didn’t dwell on it because I knew I was meeting more people. The more proactive you can be, as well as the right dating website can make dealing with these situations a lot easier. This. By the time I met the man who is now my husband, I had been on LOTS of dates from more than one online service. You know why [Match.com](http://Match.com) has the find love in 6 months deal? Because that’s about how long it takes for the average person to figure out exactly what is working, what isn’t and to find someone who agrees. It takes time. I had been doing the online dating thing for almost a year when I met my husband. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/49 "2010-04-03T14:13:37Z")
You need some **confidence**. It’s attractive. It will settle you into more of a clear-headed process. If you are confident, women will definitely find that attractive (via sensing/seeing it), and if you can somehow feel it and act it, it will drive better behavior, such as not hitting her up too quickly and too often… among other things. Reality check list: \*Not everyone likes you. Not everyone will like you. Not everyone is 100% ballsy and leaves ten minutes into finding out that they aren’t clicking with you. Even if they stick it out on the date, because they don’t have the balls to cut it short, they will duck and dodge you\*\* later\*\*. \* Let me get back to confidence: Try letting _her_ (whoever she is next that you might like) reach out to you. Since you are the confused one, sit back and let the confusion sort itself out. Wait, you aren’t confident enough to even try that a few times? Houston, we have a problem… I’ll bet you are doing things before you even meet that, when added all up, put off women, because they aren’t very telling of a person of confidence. . ---
**Author:** ![may\_be\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@may\_be\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/may_be_ignorant)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/50 "2010-04-03T16:59:17Z")
DONT LET HER GET AWAY! Flood her voicemail, send letters, wait outside, emails, the whole nine yards. Go for the gold baby, you got this one. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/51 "2010-04-03T18:51:33Z")
The only way to survive the dating game is: a) Understand that the odds are miserable - _until they aren’t._ b) Accept this so fully that you keep doing it anyway. It’s like a lot of things in this funny world: it matters _so_ much that you have to do it almost without caring at all. You really do have to _forget why you’re doing it._ Otherwise, it’s just too bleak and depressing to contemplate. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/52 "2010-04-04T16:17:01Z")
It’s funny, you folks talking about waiting a week to call/email as a matter of policy. Back when I was doing the on-line dating thing, my feeling was that if a guy couldn’t be arsed to at least email within a day or two after a first date, then regardless of whether or not he actually liked me, the whole business wasn’t as important to him as it was to me, and he was probably not a good candidate. Maybe it’s because I’m an older (54) woman, but to me, when email has been a primary means of contact, an email thank you note or other acknowledgement of having been on a date and enjoyed it ought to be sent within a day or two of the date. That doesn’t mean a request for a second date; just an acknowledgement of the first and an indication that there is some interest there in continuing. I don’t understand why this would be viewed as clingy or overpowering; to me, it’s just courtesy. Any woman who would be scared off by a simple “Thanks for having coffee/seeing a movie/whatever last night. I enjoyed it. Sincerely, John Doe” is WAY too skittish. Someone who waits a week to take thirty seconds to email when he’s really interested in me is either too busy or too much of a power-gamer for me. As for the OP, I’d have to say that I agree with the others that she probably just isn’t interested, or if she is, she’s playing games and you should run the other way. I also have to agree that calling someone at work is probably not a good idea until such time as a relationship is well-established. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/53 "2010-04-04T16:43:22Z")
You’re missing something important - maybe because you’re of an older generation. The point now is not courtesy. The point is demonstrating that you know, and can follow, unwritten codes of behavior. Life now is complicated enough that this is the only way people can engender a feeling of trust. “Power gaming” is not exactly what it is - but it _is_ gaming. Dating _is_ a game, and the significance of the game is that you show competence. If you don’t, or can’t, there is no point in playing. Thinking your personality, or anyone’s, will just naturally show through is a doubly losing proposition - first, because we are all such strangers now; second, because it ignores the game. Because we are all such strangers, the game is not just necessary; the game is _all there is_ to most relationships. If one breaks through, it is _because_ of the gameplaying, not in spite of it. The game is all we have to engender trust. Show competence, show that you sense and follow the codes, and maybe there will be an opportunity for the real you to connect. Without doing so, you have not earned that opportunity, and everyone you approach will know it and turn away. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/54 "2010-04-04T16:48:48Z")
And what is untrustworthy or breaking the rules about sending a simply acknowledgement within a day or two? (Or am I not the “you,” **Doug**?) God, I’m so glad I’m out of it! ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/55 "2010-04-04T17:09:08Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > And what is untrustworthy or breaking the rules about sending a simply acknowledgement within a day or two? (Or am I not the “you,” **Doug**?) Nothing, except that it’s got to be about the correct timing first - and that may be a day or two _or_ may not be. It’s up to us to know. Only when we know the correct timing can our message be about thanking or acknowledging the other person. Poor timing negates any other message we may want to send. The operative premise is that people’s words lie, but their actions do not. It’s possible that a sociopath might learn the unwritten codes and act on them correctly, but that is considered a calculated risk and a small one. What we _really_ want to do is not so much to protect ourselves from the predator or the user, but to avoid dealing with _people who do not know the codes._ They manifest the Other - a tacit threat to our shared reality that makes us deeply uneasy and confused. They come from a world without the game. How can anything good happen between us and them? (In case you haven’t figured it out by now, I’m one of “them,” not one of “us.”) > [@](#): > > God, I’m so glad I’m out of it! Perhaps you should be glad. I really don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/56 "2010-04-04T17:40:05Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > You’re missing something important - maybe because you’re of an older generation. > > The point now is not courtesy. The point is demonstrating that you know, and can follow, unwritten codes of behavior. Life now is complicated enough that this is the only way people can engender a feeling of trust. > > “Power gaming” is not exactly what it is - but it _is_ gaming. Dating _is_ a game, and the significance of the game is that you show competence. If you don’t, or can’t, there is no point in playing. > > Thinking your personality, or anyone’s, will just naturally show through is a doubly losing proposition - first, because we are all such strangers now; second, because it ignores the game. Because we are all such strangers, the game is not just necessary; the game is _all there is_ to most relationships. If one breaks through, it is _because_ of the gameplaying, not in spite of it. > > The game is all we have to engender trust. Show competence, show that you sense and follow the codes, and maybe there will be an opportunity for the real you to connect. Without doing so, you have not earned that opportunity, and everyone you approach will know it and turn away. Thank goodness I met my wife by being introduced via a mutual acquaintance. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/57 "2010-04-04T17:57:04Z")
How old are you? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/58 "2010-04-04T18:30:26Z")
I take it Beware of Doug is being sarcastic. Not that what he says isnt true for many people, but that he thinks? that mindset is a crock o shit, but still one that many people subscribe to. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/59 "2010-04-04T18:40:07Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I take it Beware of Doug is being sarcastic. Not that what he says isnt true for many people, but that he thinks? that mindset is a crock o shit, but still one that many people subscribe to. You may have a point here, but I can’t understand you enough to see what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486/60 "2010-04-04T18:53:49Z")
Until **billfish** comes back (which of course he’s under no obligation to do), I’ll just add that I am a ways beyond feeling sarcastic about this particular phase of life. I’m more about sketching out a kind of plausible dystopia - and then, hopefully, getting reactions as to whether there’s anything to it or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curious-bitter-fruits-of-online-dating/534486.md?page=4)