# The Curse of the Donkeys
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 3, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917 "2005-12-03T17:58:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/101 "2005-12-05T20:22:05Z")
> [@SteveG1](#):
>
> That’s really rich. You come here, to MY country, and now you’re telling me I should leave it? You really are an idiot. I’ll ask again - who the fuck do you think you are? Pathetic. I’m here to stay. Unlike YOU, I don’t abandon my home land.
>
> That says plenty. Don’t you ever lecture me about how I conduct myself regarding my country. You did far “worse” to your homeland than I would ever consider doing to mine.
Look, you are not winning any hearts and minds with such Imperious attitude.
Jeez, you don’t want to go to Paris, by all means, do stay in Van Nuys.
Can you believe that Argentinian steaks a lot better then anything statesides?
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/102 "2005-12-05T20:33:43Z")
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> Look, you are not winning any hearts and minds with such Imperious attitude.
So says the guy with the certified coward attitude.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/103 "2005-12-05T21:10:12Z")
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> With all due respect to individual Democrats serving this Nation in all walks of life, the modern Democratic Party in general is failing us all with its incapacity for any positive action and coherent position on anything.
Totally unresponsive to anyhting previously said in this thread.
Did you dig up this nugget from Coulter, Hannity, or Limbaugh?
-Joe
---
### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/104 "2005-12-06T01:59:56Z")
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> I lied my way out of the Military. The time was 1980-s, the place USSR. So I didn’t get to go into Afghanistan. I hated everything about USSR. I even celebrated Soviet Army defeats. So I was a bona fide draft-dodger and a traitor, as far as Soviet gov’t was concerned.
>
> So in a way I understand that it’s possible to reject everything the Gov’t is doing.
>
> Also, there was another thing I did. I swore to leave USSR at the first opportunity and I did, and I never was back. How about you?
I call bullshit. No evidence, just a gut feeling.
If you hate everything about the Soviet military why pick “Iskander” as a screen name? It is common knowledge that the Iskander was originally a Soviet anti aircraft missile program.
Also, do you see the IRONY in a self proclaimed traitor and deserting coward such as yourself lecturing those of us who choose to resist our country’s march to the right instead of deserting it for better oportunities elsewhere. Not that I believe you really defected from the Soviet military in the eighties…
---
### Author:  [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/105 "2005-12-06T05:02:01Z")
**New Iskander**
I am joining the thread at this point because it is _my_ turn to join the “pile on”. (Yes, we liberal, knee-jerk “Dopers” have specially-designed software to alert each and every one of us whenever a negative posting has reared its ugly head. It also assigns precise times when we can make our postings to make you think the “pile-on” is completely random). :rolleyes:
For one thing, there are some conservative posters at the SDMB (Mr Moto and Airman Doors for example) who _sometimes_ express differing views from the liberal crowd. However, the responses to their postings are always civil and not hostile. Heck, sometimes we even agree with them. (So, much for your “pile-on” presumption.)
As for the liberal crowd using the SDMB as a platform for carping and complaining? Yes, how dare we make remarks that _might_ be uncomplimentary to the current administration. Hello !!! If it weren’t for a bunch of carping and complaining “whiners” a few centuries ago, we’d still be a British colony.
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### Author:  [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/106 "2005-12-06T06:05:26Z")
> [@askeptic](#):
>
> If you hate everything about the Soviet military why pick “Iskander” as a screen name? It is common knowledge that the Iskander was originally a Soviet anti aircraft missile program.
There are plenty of good reasons to disagree with **New Iskander** , but that’s just a dopey argument. “Iskander” was not originally a missile program; it’s the name by which Alexander the Great became know in Central and Southern Asia and has become a not uncommon sirname and given name in large areas of the USSR. Do you have some secret evidence that NI chose his user name to be associated with the Soviet military’s cooption of the name, rather than, say, admiration for Alexander the Great or because it was his maternal grandmother’s maiden name?
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### Author:  [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/107 "2005-12-06T06:55:18Z")
> [@askeptic](#):
>
> Also, do you see the IRONY in a self proclaimed traitor and deserting coward such as yourself lecturing those of us who choose to resist our country’s march to the right instead of deserting it for better oportunities elsewhere. Not that I believe you really defected from the Soviet military in the eighties…
I do see the irony, and it is RICH. I used to do all those dissenting things you do and then some back in USSR, because I believed that Soviet Gov’t was wrong and I was right. So I do know how you feel. What I can’t understand is why you feel that way. Perhaps you have no idea what kind of trash can the most of the world is. You are stuck in your internal political fights and take so many good things for granted.
_Iskander_ was a nome-de-plume of the great Russian writer and revolutionary, [Alexander Herzen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Herzen).
---
### Author:  [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/108 "2005-12-06T09:58:21Z")
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> …I thought…
Well that explains a lot!
Thinking is just not your forte.
Keep practicing though, eventually you’ll get good at it.
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> …you were being a stupid prick…
Work on those insults.
Stupid is refutable, if I was stupid, I wouldn’t have noticed your error about the movie.
Prick is so-so, it’s too easy to turn around, “Dude, quit staring at my crotch”,“Damn right 8” long, before it gets hard!",“At least I got one, and a pair o’ balls”, read some other pit threads, there are some real experts out there to emulate.
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> …So I attempted to demonstrate how stupid it is to be a prick…
Now this, you are good at!
No need to make any attempts, I mean, why do you think you got nominated for “most stupiderist poster”?
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> …That’s why I started shouting at **t&d** for even more innocuous omission…
Attacking **tomndebb** when your pissed at ME is just plain lame.
Yours was not an innocuous omission, _esy_ still reads as _easy_, but WWI isn’t even close to WWII, and, if you’ve never seen “The Best Years of Our Lives” you wouldn’t know it wasn’t about WW1.
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> …I was being a stupid prick,…
Aww, don’t be so hard on yourself.
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> …just like you,…
It’s good to have goals, just don’t set that bar too high!
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> …get it?
Nope, I still don’t get it.
Maybe you should stick to “knock knock” jokes!
---
### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/109 "2005-12-06T16:19:43Z")
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> I do see the irony, and it is RICH. I used to do all those dissenting things you do and then some back in USSR, because I believed that Soviet Gov’t was wrong and I was right. So I do know how you feel. What **I can’t understand** is why you feel that way. Perhaps you have no idea what kind of trash can the most of the world is. You are stuck in your internal political fights and **take so many good things for granted**.
You, the self identified lying, draft dodging, soldier hating, war hating, country deserting, coward of the former USSR ,were justified in doing these things, but nobody else is allowed their opinion? In a country where this freedom to dissent is written into LAW? Who the fuck are you.
If you don’t understand by now, after it has been exhaustively been explained in so many threads, then you are just fucking stupid.
As for taking things for granted, that isn’t it at all. Some of us just understand better than you do, that some things are worth arguing or fighting for (the right to freedom of speech - even against the Leader or his war).
You are just hopelessly stupid and ignorant.
\*\*Bill of Rights \*\*
**Amendment I**
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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### Author:  [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/110 "2005-12-06T17:10:48Z")
> [@SteveG1](#):
>
> You, the self identified lying, draft dodging, soldier hating, war hating, country deserting, coward of the former USSR ,were justified in doing these things, but nobody else is allowed their opinion? In a country where this freedom to dissent is written into LAW? Who the fuck are you.
Looks like you are getting warm enough to suggest that I should have enlisted in the Soviet army and met you on a field of battle somewhere in 1980-s, as a real man should. Well, sorry I didn’t. But not my fault. I was brainwashed by US propaganda. Blame the ‘_striped pants boys in the State Department_’. They won my heart and mind, the lying bastards.
You see, when manly brave Americans like you were girding themselves for the last decisive nuclear slugfest with the Evil Empire, those pussies in DC were spreading melifulous lies over radiowaves and magazine pages to deceive the pure and honest young Communists and sway them to US side. Corrupt them. Make traitors out of them. I fell for it, and so did many others. So, no, not my fault.
See what’s wrong with this world? Washington, DC!
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### Author:  [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/111 "2005-12-06T17:17:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> So says the guy with the certified coward attitude.
Remind me, why did you leave El Salvador?
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/112 "2005-12-06T17:56:54Z")
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> Looks like you are getting warm enough to suggest that I should have enlisted in the Soviet army and met you on a field of battle somewhere in 1980-s, as a real man should. Well, sorry I didn’t. But not my fault. I was brainwashed by US propaganda. Blame the ‘_striped pants boys in the State Department_’. They won my heart and mind, the lying bastards.
>
> You see, when manly brave Americans like you were girding themselves for the last decisive nuclear slugfest with the Evil Empire, those pussies in DC were spreading melifulous lies over radiowaves and magazine pages to deceive the pure and honest young Communists and sway them to US side. Corrupt them. Make traitors out of them. I fell for it, and so did many others. So, no, not my fault.
>
> See what’s wrong with this world? Washington, DC!
Oh, just shut up. You refuse to acknowledge your own hypocrisy. You’re as full of shit as a Christmas goose.
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### Author:  [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/113 "2005-12-06T18:24:14Z")
> [@SteveG1](#):
>
> Oh, just shut up. You refuse to acknowledge your own hypocrisy. You’re as full of shit as a Christmas goose.
What hypocrisy?
Why would you stuff your Christmas table centerpiece with shit?
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/114 "2005-12-06T19:02:37Z")
> [@zagloba](#):
>
> There are plenty of good reasons to disagree with **New Iskander** , but that’s just a dopey argument.
You are right it would be a dopey argument, thats why I did not present it as an argument. I said right up front that I had no evidence that NI was lying, that it was just a gut feeling.
NI has never demonstrated an interest in history but maybe his screen name is derived according to your theory. I do not know, nor do I care. Screen names are not the issue here.
The serious portion was in my third paragraph, which you aparently ignored. My bad. I should not be such a lazy typer.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/115 "2005-12-06T19:50:00Z")
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> Remind me, why did you leave El Salvador?
My brothers and me received death threats if you want to know you elephant asshole. Before that, I regularly visited my grandmother even though around the neighborhood bombs were going off, a complete fleet of trucks was destroyed by an attack one day I was there. I still did go back the next day regardless.
But then, being still a kid, I had to follow what my parents told me and so we did come to the US. That then lead us to then wonder: what one can do for their new country?
Unless you can say you sacrificed something for your new country you really are indeed a certifiable coward.
I never did join the US military (although other family members did). But, one of my first jobs was in electronics testing for military and aerospace devices.
Radioactivity, nasty chemical, liquid nitrogen tests were the order of the day. Many workers that were not careful then in their later years came with cancer and other bad things, It amazed me how many were not mindful of procedures and ignorant on what we were doing, many of the components we tested then were used on weapons systems like the Tomahawk missile. (that beats the crap out of a New Iskander missile 🙂 ) the same missiles that then saved many American lives by being so effective against Saddam’s army.
Before the war I confess I was felling bad that I was helping the military that once helped repress my former country. However, 3 things did change that:
People with different beliefs in the US are not killed for their opinions
The first Iraq war and then the Afghan war showed that indeed there is a reason to develop such weapons.
And my oath taken when I became an American citizen:
\*“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.” \*
Speaking of the constitution:
\*“Amendment I of the constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, **and to petition the government for a redress of grievances**.” \*
There can be nothing more unpatriotic as people like you demanding that we shut up on our criticisms especially when the reasons for the Iraq war were a bunch of crap.
I do keep an oath seriously. You only think the best way to do well is not only to behave like a coward, but also to defend the untruthful, unjust and the un-American Elephant/mules rulers we have today. This is not a dictatorship, as much as Bush would like, we have to constantly petition the government for a redress of grievances.
I am for Truth, Justice and the American way, and one does not have to be in the army or be superman 🙂 to do the right thing.
---
### Author:  [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/116 "2005-12-06T20:50:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> My brothers and me received death threats if you want to know you elephant asshole.
How do you know I was never in danger? Do you know how many relatives I lost to Communist terror? Neither do I, because people are still afraid to talk, even in the family. Two, for sure, but I suspect a few more.
Yes, I had to lie my way out of the Soviet Army, because refusing to serve a criminal offense, immediately punishible by serious prison term. I had to keep low social profile, I had to watch my words every time. I had to lie to escape from USSR, too.
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> Unless you can say you sacrificed something for your new country you really are indeed a certifiable coward.
>
> I never did join the US military (although other family members did). But, one of my first jobs was in electronics testing for military and aerospace devices.
>
> Radioactivity, nasty chemical, liquid nitrogen tests were the order of the day. Many workers that were not careful then in their later years came with cancer and other bad things
Radioactivity-check, nasty chemical-check, plus back-breaking menial work, broken bones, loneliness, alienation… Cancer? who knows, all in good time…
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/117 "2005-12-06T21:43:52Z")
> [@New Iskander](#):
>
> How do you know I was never in danger?
I did not ask, you only told us how nice the weather was in your vacation places.
Get a clue that you are indeed a Gluteous Maximus on how you are making your points.
> [@](#):
>
> Do you know how many relatives I lost to Communist terror? Neither do I, because people are still afraid to talk, even in the family. Two, for sure, but I suspect a few more.
Neither do you know how many friends or family did at the hands of the death squads, squads that by the way are appearing in the new Iraq, courtesy to the fact that the Iraq plan is the “El Salvador plan” as Cheney and other in the administration said before.
> [@](#):
>
> Yes, I had to lie my way out of the Soviet Army, because refusing to serve a criminal offense, immediately punishible by serious prison term. I had to keep low social profile, I had to watch my words every time. I had to lie to escape from USSR, too.
That may be OK, but I am asking now what you did for your current country not your former one you numnuts.
> [@](#):
>
> Radioactivity-check, nasty chemical-check, plus back-breaking menial work, broken bones, loneliness, alienation… Cancer? who knows, all in good time…
Only thing this shows is that your Gluteus Maximus approach is dumb, there are many on the other side that also suffered the same and worse, it is still unamerican, unjust and the Elephant dung way to imply that we should sut up on what the Mares are doing.
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### Author:  [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/118 "2005-12-06T22:01:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> Only thing this shows is that your Gluteus Maximus approach is dumb, there are many on the other side that also suffered the same and worse, it is still unamerican, unjust and the Elephant dung way to imply that we should sut up on what the Mares are doing.
Where did I tell you to _sut up_?
All I said was, stop trying to piss up a river. Zeus was joking.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/119 "2005-12-06T22:06:54Z")
I admit that I could very well be wrong, but I don’t think “piss up a river” is an actual saying, is it? I’ve heard “piss up a rope” before, but never “piss up a river.” I mean, aside from the 5,486 **New Iskander** has used it in this thread.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [December 6, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-curse-of-the-donkeys/333917/120 "2005-12-06T22:08:30Z")
… from the 5,486 _times_ **New Iskander** has used it in this thread, I meant to say.
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