# The daddy superhero and the sort-of-heroic thief dilemma. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 24, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495 "2014-11-24T17:25:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/21 "2014-11-25T01:47:58Z")
_Meanwhile, back at the Lloyds Exchange (where Actuaries chew on Rates) I haven’t forgot to book a suite o rooms for Miss Adventure and her Mates (Enjoy prison bars and gates…!)_ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/22 "2014-11-25T01:51:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > How many cultists did he just beat up without asking for authority, such that suddenly he has a change of heart and asks if he has the right to let someone free? The same authority that lets him decide to beat up cultists is the one that governs this decision. > > For me, it’s the opposite of paying off hostage-takers. The danger behind paying off hostage-takers is that it encourages more violence in the future. The danger behind arresting Arnie is that word will undoubtedly get out. “If you find out about a mess,” villains will tell each other, “Don’t contact Bob. That asshole will arrest you.” Arresting Arnie discourages coming to him for help and encourages more violence in the future. > > I think the harm of letting him go free, undoubtedly to steal more stuff from rich folks for different rich folks, is largely outweighed by the harm of dissuading other villains from going to Bob in case of emergency. Bob didn’t beat up ANY cultists. Arnie did that. Bob killed the monster. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/23 "2014-11-25T02:06:53Z")
Since Arnie has been arrested before, and is now running around a free man, obviously whatever jurisdiction supers fall under either practice the Gotham model of prisoner supervision, or just have really low punishments for theft. Since he’s proven himself to be more or less incorrigible, the rehabilitation argument doesn’t fly either. Clearly, the only thing gained from handing him over to the authorities is to keep him out of trouble for a couple of months to years a most. So this gets a big fat whatever from me - of Bob just wants to keep Arnie out of his hair for a while, he can ask Arnie if he consents to being GPS-chipped in return for going free. If not, prison. Or he can let him go, it really doesn’t matter that much, he’ll be out in five issues, tops. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/24 "2014-11-25T02:19:43Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Bob didn’t beat up ANY cultists. Arnie did that. Bob killed the monster. My bad. Am I right in thinking, then, that Bob doesn’t take it on himself to beat up bad guys ever, or to make calls of whom to detain to turn over to cops and whom not to turn over to cops? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/25 "2014-11-25T03:21:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Something occurs to me. Does Bob have the RIGHT to let Arnie walk–to arrogate the decision of what Arnie merits to himself? Anyone has the right, but not the obligation, to make a citizen’s arrest. And in a handful of states IIRC, if a police officer directly asks you to help him to, say, subdue a struggling criminal and you refuse, you can be prosecuted. “After all, Watson,” said Holmes, reaching up his hand for his clay pipe, “I am not retained by the police to supply their deficiencies.” - Conan Doyle, “The Blue Carbuncle” ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/26 "2014-11-25T10:45:26Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Anyone has the right, but not the obligation, to make a citizen’s arrest. Strictly speaking, Bob is not a _citizen_ of the United Kingdom and therefore cannot make a citizen’s arrest within the United Kingdom. I’m sure a Doper lawyer who understands the Police & Criminal Evidence Act et al will be along shortly to determine if Bob can make a _civilian_’s arrest. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/27 "2014-11-25T11:32:47Z")
One: Great Britain’s home dimension? Is that literally Hell, or is that confusion on the characters’ part? And was it called Tol Eressëa there? Two: He looted Samsung into insolvency? Wow, yeah, that’s pretty bad. Of course, maybe Samsung is a particularly evil Silicon Valley firm in this reality. (Stealing _la Gioconda_ is a stunt theft, and not that important.) Three: If Arnie hadn’t gotten involved, someone else could have supplied the jewels. So Arnie’s involvement ended up working like a sting. The world is safer if Arnie is out there doing his thing—even leaving aside his superheroics saving the virgins. So, as a consequentialist, I have to consider that Arnie’s mix of powers and…_particular_ conscience is really useful to have, and highly scarce; but he’s also dangerous to anyone with tempting burglables. (Is that a word?) In Bob X’s shoes, I could probably figure out how to “take him in” while actually letting him get out, but it might be better to make it clear that I’m grateful…\*this \*time. Crap, sorry, Samsung, I think I have to let Arnie go. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/28 "2014-11-25T14:01:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > ETA: Depends on whether you know what you’re starting, IMHO. > > Makes me think of the _Firefly_ episode, “The Train Job.” Mal & Co., working for Niska, steal some stuff from a train, but it turns out it’s medicine that a town desperately needs to fight an epidemic. And is discovered when returning it to the town (ETA: on the sly) after realizing what he’s gotten into. > > IIRC, the local sheriff doesn’t arrest him. You do recall correctly, but the sheriff’s rationale (that in these tough times, if a man can get a job, he might not look too closely at the details…but when he learns those details, then he has a choice) doesn’t really apply here. Granted that Arnie didn’t know what the jewels were for – but you can’t really describe Arnie as being beset by tough times, either. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495/29 "2014-11-25T17:00:24Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > One: Great Britain’s home dimension? Is that literally Hell, or is that confusion on the characters’ part? And was it called Tol Eressëa there? “Its home dimension” means "“Zahhak’s home dimension.” I’m working under the assumption that evil ancient immortal Persian dragons don’t have genitals. > [@](#): > > Two: He looted Samsung into insolvency? Wow, yeah, that’s pretty bad. Of course, maybe Samsung is a particularly evil Silicon Valley firm in this reality. (Stealing _la Gioconda_ is a stunt theft, and not that important. ) I figure Steve Jobs or some other competitor paid Arnie to steal Samsung prototypes & product plans and to screw with their factories and design labs, et cetera, until the company went under. Three: If Arnie hadn’t gotten involved, someone else could have supplied the jewels. So Arnie’s involvement ended up working like a sting. The world is safer if Arnie is out there doing his thing—even leaving aside his superheroics saving the virgins. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I think there’s some additional information that we need: > (1) Are there large numbers of powered individuals such as Arnie and Bob in the world? Are there significant numbers who are basically similar to Arnie… going around committing crazy crimes but not generally hurting people? Because how Bob treats Arnie could have a serious impact on how those individuals act I edited the following out of the OP for the sake of brevity, but since you ask… There’s about 100 known superhumans in Bob’s world. But other 99 are nowhere near Bob’s power level. The number-two strongman is about as strong as Buffy Summers; the second-place energy wielder is basically a living taser; and so forth; while Bob, of course, is pretty much a god. Arnie’s teleportation probably makes him one of the most powerful of the lesser, but even he’s pretty much a norm in Bob’s eyes. Some of the lesser superhumans are cops, some are crooks. There may be some who are in the closet and quietly making fortunes in the NBA, of course > [@](#): > > (2) Is there a justice system capable of humanely but securely imprisoning Arnie? Physical contact with lead prevents Arnie from teleporting, so I figure after Bob pinkie-finger-thumps him out and shackles him, some tech person could devise a longer-term solution–a subdermal implant, say. How healthy that would be, I dunno. > [@](#): > > (3) Is there a precedent? What’s the general feeling in the world about whether human law does/should apply to powered individuals? 100 supers out of 7 billion people is not enough to be a social group of any consequence; I expect it’s simply not an issue. [Except for Bob, who acts as if that the law applies to him](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophy_of_'As_If'), a polite fiction I expect the world’s governments are happy to go along with. > [@Septima](#): > > Since Arnie has been arrested before, and is now running around a free man, obviously whatever jurisdiction supers fall under either practice the Gotham model of prisoner supervision, or just have really low punishments for theft. Or the tech types only recently figured out how to contain him. The fact that Arnie is asking for mercy implies that he knows he can be imprisoned, perhaps not in a pleasant way. You don’t see the Joker or the pre-Crisis Luthor fretting about going to the asylum or jail, because they know they can bust out. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I assume Bob has no clear cut legal authority in England, nor any obligation to aid in the enforcement of English Law. He might. It’s not part of the OP so you don’t have to accept it, but Bob might be like Silver Age Superman, who had been granted free passage over all the world’s borders. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Don’t think Bob has any legal authority to make an arrest on these facts. And even if he does, he needs to look the other way while Arnie escapes…assuming he wants similar tips from Arnie in the future. Why not? Arnie confessed the whole deal to him on the phone when calling for help. Also, when Bob accuses him of stealing the Mona Lisa he doesn’t say, “Hey, that wasn’t me, it was that hot blonde who turns invisible.” Surely Arnie’s wanted for SOMETHING. > [@Bricker](#): > > You do recall correctly, but the sheriff’s rationale (that in these tough times, if a man can get a job, he might not look too closely at the details…but when he learns those details, then he has a choice) doesn’t really apply here. Granted that Arnie didn’t know what the jewels were for – but you can’t really describe Arnie as being beset by tough times, either. As I recall, part of the reason the sheriff let Mal & Zoe go is because they didn’t perceive that they had any choice once they knew the consequences of their acts; they were going to return the drugs even if it meant prison or death, and didn’t ask for mercy. Arnie’s whining, and given that he points out that he could have 'ported away, he probably thinks he was doing Bob and the kids a favor rather than fulfilling any moral duty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-daddy-superhero-and-the-sort-of-heroic-thief-dilemma/705495.md?page=1)