# The Dallas ebola guy just died. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 8, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768 "2014-10-08T16:25:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/41 "2014-10-09T04:28:26Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > [Nor do most Americans seem to understand how Ebola is spread. It isn’t that easy to transmit.](http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/02/352983774/no-seriously-how-contagious-is-ebola) > > Let’s assume the guy DID know he had Ebola (I’m not convinced that he did). I don’t blame the guy one bit for wanting to get to America where he could get far better medical care. I’d do the same thing if I were worried I had been exposed to Ebola…and so would you. > > If you were infected with Ebola in a third world country but yet you had the means to get to America to receive first world healthcare, you would have traveled here even if you had to lie to get here. Don’t even try to pretend you wouldn’t do everything you could to improve your chance of surviving. You’re projecting. Maybe _you’re_ willing to risk killing hundreds of innocent people by knowingly taking a case of one of the top four most lethal and contagious diseases through multiple international airports without taking any kind of reasonable precautions to avoid infecting other people, just to save your own skin, but don’t pretend we’re all like you. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/42 "2014-10-09T04:49:03Z")
While Ebola _might_ in the “top four” lethal diseases, or might not, it is NOT in the “top four contagious” category. The common cold, influenza, SARS, smallpox, and a host of others are more contagious. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/43 "2014-10-09T06:17:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > While Ebola _might_ in the “top four” lethal diseases, or might not, it is NOT in the “top four contagious” category. The common cold, influenza, SARS, smallpox, and a host of others are more contagious. I am aware, but those two attributes taken together are what are significant - neither a deadly disease which is not transmissible nor a contagious disease which is harmless are of as much concern as a disease which possesses both these traits. If you wouldn’t risk infecting others with smallpox, polio or HIV, neither should you do so with Ebola. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Holdsworth_Effect)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/44 "2014-10-09T06:32:57Z")
Not being judge nor jury (nor perfect), I won’t pronounce on Mr Duncan’s motives. By the reports he was a nice man who was liked and who tried to help others. The system at the hospital REALLY dropped the ball- we have office to ER to hospital connected electronic records systems in place, but we/I CALL the ER doc about a person being sent for what’s called a warm (and now we should have red alert hot) handoffs, so that the ER staff has person to person communication in case the damn electronic record doesn’t get read, in the moment. It’s not clear if the two day delay cost him his life; he certainly got SOTA supportive care- ventilator, dialysis, I’d bet a pump as well. The same is done with bacterial sepsis when it progresses to multiorgan failure. The drugs used weren’t effective and we don’t really know if they would have helped if started sooner, because we don’t really know if they work on humans at all. It is clear that an Ebola patient is increasingly contagious as disease progresses and the body emits more fluids. Take a look at the CDC website (I have to look at it daily at work) regarding Ebola/Marburg viruses and their detection protocols, and clear guidelines for every known aspect. …and while WA doesn’t have any Ebola patients Harborview is gearing up and has said they will accept them. UpToDate also, this morning, had a sentence regarding potential for bioterrorism. Old cynical here still thinks quarantines work. The fear is that it’s too late now. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/45 "2014-10-09T11:25:38Z")
It’s sad that Duncan died, but I can’t fault him for his actions. How likely is it that he knew the pregnant woman he tried to help was infected with Ebola? He took her to two medical facilities that weren’t taking in new patients because they were overloaded, so he took her back home. She wasn’t seen by doctors before she died, so it’s likely she wasn’t diagnosed until after she died from it. Duncan had no symptoms when he boarded the plane to Brussels, felt fine, had a temperature of only 97.5° F, and passed a health screen before being allowed to board a plane. He didn’t exhibit symptoms until he had been in Dallas for about five days, so wasn’t contagious until then. As for saying he hadn’t been exposed to Ebola on his health form at the airport, it was probably true to his knowledge. He even told the emergency staff at the hospital that he came from Liberia, a fact which was admitted by the hospital. I feel Duncan was an innocent victim who was infected as a result of doing a good deed, but did not travel to Dallas knowing that he had been infected. The fault lied with the hospital. Even if they couldn’t have saved him if they had admitted him the first time, they could have minimized the number of other people who could have been potentially infected. The Huffington Post lists everything known about Duncan so far, up to the time of his death: > **[What We Know About Thomas Eric Duncan, The First Ebola Patient Diagnosed In...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/thomas-eric-duncan-dallas-ebola-patient-us_n_5942150)** > > What We Know About Thomas Eric Duncan, The First Ebola Patient Diagnosed In The U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/46 "2014-10-09T12:38:08Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I am aware, but those two attributes taken together are what are significant - neither a deadly disease which is not transmissible nor a contagious disease which is harmless are of as much concern as a disease which possesses both these traits. If you wouldn’t risk infecting others with smallpox, polio or HIV, neither should you do so with Ebola. The thing is smallpox, polio, HIV, and Ebola are not equally contagious, nor do they spread by the same means. That’s why we isolated smallpox cases very stringently - that crap was not just readily contagious it was truly airborne. Polio is spread via feces and contaminated water, so making sure it doesn’t get into the drinking water is vitally important, but you wouldn’t catch it by being in the same room as someone with polio like you would with smallpox. HIV is even less contagious - don’t have sex with the infected, don’t share needles with them, and don’t get a blood transfusion from them and you’re golden, holding hands and speaking with the person is harmless, bumping up against them in the subway or a crowd is harmless so no, you don’t need to quarantine people with HIV. Ebola is nowhere near as contagious as the flu or smallpox. It is more contagious than HIV. Someone who has been exposed and is harboring the virus BUT is not yet ill and not showing symptoms is not going to make the person sitting next to them on an airplane sick. So far as Duncan knew he was OK to get on the airplanes. So far as _anyone_ knows the people who were on an airplane with him are not in danger. Stop acting like he was some sort of bioterrorist intent on spreading evil because that’s not what he was and that’s not what he did. Sure, he acted less than perfectly, but that’s because he was just an ordinary guy. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/47 "2014-10-09T13:53:58Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Maybe _you’re_ willing to risk killing hundreds of innocent people by knowingly taking a case of one of the top four most lethal and contagious diseases through multiple international airports without taking any kind of reasonable precautions to avoid infecting other people, just to save your own skin, but don’t pretend we’re all like you. I don’t think any of us know until we are put into that situation. I’d probably lie to my Mother to get to a US hospital. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Holdsworth_Effect)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/48 "2014-10-09T15:14:59Z")
Broomstick, I sure hope you don’t think I consider this patient was a BT- I was quite surprised to see mention of the viruses as such on the UpToDate site. It was in no way specific to this case. Apologies if that inference was made. We’ll get better at treating Ebola. Progress is already being made. Fewer mistakes will be made. Hopefully, more will get their flu shots (and other vaccinations). Keep in mind that fighting ignorance is indeed taking WAY longer than we thought…I see Rush Limbaugh is already spouting even more gross stupidity than usual. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/49 "2014-10-09T15:33:47Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The silver lining for him is that now he probably won’t be charged for having lied on that Ebola questionaire. Silver lining? That’s a CDC casket seal. > [@Cubsfan](#): > > I’m guessing he’ll be headed straight to the creamatorium. Don’t breath the air in Dallas this week! Before or after Jerry Jones speaks? > [@Broomstick](#): > > My vote is for “someone fucked up and dropped the ball”. DeMarco Murray? But that’s only 4 fumbles so far… > [@Broomstick](#): > > Sure, he acted less than perfectly, but that’s because he was just an ordinary guy. You’re Right! It was Tom Brady that fumbled 5. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/50 "2014-10-09T17:10:05Z")
> [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](#): > > Broomstick, I sure hope you don’t think I consider this patient was a BT That wasn’t so much directed at any one person here as just general frustration. I understand people are scared spitless of this disease. If I was in a room with an ebola patient and got puked on I’d be terrified! However, I’m over a thousand miles away from this one case. Realistically, I’m safe sitting here at my computer typing away. I can educate myself calmly. In another thread I referred to a Liberian woman who successfully nursed three people through ebola (one died) using ordinary trash bags to improvise protective gear without ever becoming ill herself. Medical personnel were so impressed they went to learn from her how she did, so the information and techniques can be disseminated. This is one of the things that make me hopeful - you CAN protect yourself, even without an elaborate infrastructure (although modern hazmat suits would have been easier and more certain). Ill people can be cared for without dooming the caretakers. Yes, it’s a nasty, horrible, all too often lethal disease - but this can be _managed_, the outbreak can be contained… if we are willing to invest the time, effort, and materials to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/51 "2014-10-09T17:12:45Z")
So can use the term “idiot” for the guy who went into Duncan’s apartment without any protection then went to an urgent care when he felt sick, potentially exposing many other people who may already be sick? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/52 "2014-10-09T17:25:14Z")
The LEO who went into Duncan’s apartment without protection was probably _ignorant_, that is, not fully informed of the dangers or precautions he might want to take. That’s markedly different than knowing what you should do and ignoring that knowledge, which is called “acting stupid”. To my mind, it’s yet another instance that indicates the Powers That Be in Dallas don’t know how to handle this, or don’t care, and need to improve rapidly. ALL first responders need to be up to speed on how to handle themselves around infectious diseases. Going to urgent care when he started feeling wasn’t ideal, but it was preferable to either staying home, getting sicker and continuing to expose anyone else in the household, or ignoring the illness and continuing to go to work and exposing the general public. Honestly, if he had gone to an ER he would have exposed just as many, if not more, people than going to an urgent care. Where do you suggest he should have gone? ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/53 "2014-10-09T18:03:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The LEO who went into Duncan’s apartment without protection was probably _ignorant_, that is, not fully informed of the dangers or precautions he might want to take. That’s markedly different than knowing what you should do and ignoring that knowledge, which is called “acting stupid”. > > To my mind, it’s yet another instance that indicates the Powers That Be in Dallas don’t know how to handle this, or don’t care, and need to improve rapidly. ALL first responders need to be up to speed on how to handle themselves around infectious diseases. > > Going to urgent care when he started feeling wasn’t ideal, but it was preferable to either staying home, getting sicker and continuing to expose anyone else in the household, or ignoring the illness and continuing to go to work and exposing the general public. Honestly, if he had gone to an ER he would have exposed just as many, if not more, people than going to an urgent care. Where do you suggest he should have gone? At the point where he started feeling ill, he had to know by then about the whole Ebola thing and the most logical thing would be to call someone and ask for the hazmat team, instead of going somewhere unprotected and exposing more people. Maybe they didn’t know how to handle it when Duncan first showed up with Ebola but they should have been working overtime to make sure people were informed after that, especially anyone who had been involved in the case. Which brings up the quiestion how did they miss this guy in the first place? I thought everyone exposed had been quarantined? It seems like they’ve been dropping a lot of balls. That’s the scary part. I am not an “OMG EBOLA!” panicker but it doesn’t help my faith in the system when I hear about all the mistakes that have been made. Here’s hoping everyone else learns from Dallas’ mistakes in case it pops up elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/54 "2014-10-09T19:00:10Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > At the point where he started feeling ill, he had to know by then about the whole Ebola thing and the most logical thing would be to call someone and ask for the hazmat team, instead of going somewhere unprotected and exposing more people. Maybe they didn’t know how to handle it when Duncan first showed up with Ebola but they should have been working overtime to make sure people were informed after that, especially anyone who had been involved in the case. Which brings up the quiestion how did they miss this guy in the first place? I thought everyone exposed had been quarantined? > > It seems like they’ve been dropping a lot of balls. That’s the scary part. I am not an “OMG EBOLA!” panicker but it doesn’t help my faith in the system when I hear about all the mistakes that have been made. Here’s hoping everyone else learns from Dallas’ mistakes in case it pops up elsewhere. They were talking about him on the news this morning. By CDC standards he had no contact with Ebola. The blankets and clothing that Thomas Duncan wore were triple bagged and covered with bleach in a back room. The risk of exposure for him was non existant by current thinking. As it turns out, he’s showing no signs of illness today and is likely to be cleared soon. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/55 "2014-10-09T19:11:30Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > They were talking about him on the news this morning. By CDC standards he had no contact with Ebola. The blankets and clothing that Thomas Duncan wore were triple bagged and covered with bleach in a back room. The risk of exposure for him was non existant by current thinking. > > As it turns out, he’s showing no signs of illness today and is likely to be cleared soon. I wondered how he could be exposed just walking into the apartment unless he stepped in bodily fluids and later touched it when taking off his shoes. Still you’d think that if you suspect you have Ebola you might realize it’s best not to potentially expose more people? Even if he didn’t actually expose more people he’s probably freaked out a lot by scaring them into thinking they were all exposed, too. I also have to wonder how many people who think they’ve been exposed make themselves sick just by worrying about it. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/56 "2014-10-09T19:21:16Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I wondered how he could be exposed just walking into the apartment unless he stepped in bodily fluids and later touched it when taking off his shoes. Still you’d think that if you suspect you have Ebola you might realize it’s best not to potentially expose more people? Even if he didn’t actually expose more people he’s probably freaked out a lot by scaring them into thinking they were all exposed, too. I also have to wonder how many people who think they’ve been exposed make themselves sick just by worrying about it. I agree with you there. He apparently didn’t believe he had Ebola when he went to the Care Now facility but he had to know the stink it would raise. He really should have called his doctor and arranged for an ambulance crew to meet him at his house. As I mentioned above, I live in Frisco and one of my friends got a call that her daughter has contact with this deputies children because they go to the same school. People are definitely not taking any chances right now at all and that’s probably a good thing. But too much of this will lead to Chicken Little syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/57 "2014-10-09T19:27:28Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > At the point where he started feeling ill, he had to know by then about the whole Ebola thing and the most logical thing would be to call someone and ask for the hazmat team, instead of going somewhere unprotected and exposing more people. Are they even set up for that? I can just see someone calling 911 saying they think they’ve got Ebola, send a hazmat team. What they get, maybe, is an ambulance. Maybe. Maybe instead the operator asks if the caller is well enough to get himself to a doctor - yes? Then drive yourself. I think it’s highly unlikely the local 911 folks even have a protocol set up for Ebola at this point. Not that I would mind being wrong on that. And yeah, I suspect quite a few people have, literally, worried themselves sick about these things. Really, [this](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/09/uk-health-ebola-macedonia-idUKKCN0HY1YG20141009) incident in Macedonia sounds more worrisome that what’s going on in Dallas at the moment. And that nurse in Spain who caught it off a patient. Even so, I’ve been expecting onesies and twosies of Ebola cases scattered around the world. I’m not going to worry until one of these situations starts affecting more than a handful of people in a location. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/58 "2014-10-09T19:33:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Are they even set up for that? > > I can just see someone calling 911 saying they think they’ve got Ebola, send a hazmat team. What they get, maybe, is an ambulance. Maybe. Maybe instead the operator asks if the caller is well enough to get himself to a doctor - yes? Then drive yourself. I think it’s highly unlikely the local 911 folks even have a protocol set up for Ebola at this point. > > Not that I would mind being wrong on that. Frisco absolutely is setup to handle this. His wife drove him to the Care Now facility where he got the full hazmat treatment you mention above. Since his proximity to Thomas Duncan is what triggered this he would have received the same response at his house. The facility he went to is less than 30 miles away from Texas Presbyterian where Thomas Duncan was being treated so they were already prepared to accept a new case of [potential] Ebola. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/59 "2014-10-09T19:34:02Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > They were talking about him on the news this morning. By CDC standards he had no contact with Ebola. The blankets and clothing that Thomas Duncan wore were triple bagged and covered with bleach in a back room. The risk of exposure for him was non existant by current thinking. > > As it turns out, he’s showing no signs of illness today and is likely to be cleared soon. My theory is his wife had the idea to retile the bathroom as the latest “easy” home improvement project HE could do while she supervised, and him, quickly thinking on his feet, figured a “sorry boss, gotta touch of the bola doncha know” was the less painful option. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/60 "2014-10-10T00:24:45Z")
We now have an alternative explanation why Duncan was turned away (the original one being the hospital was too stupid to recognize ebola): “The Dallas hospital that treated the Ebola patient who died this week tried to fend off accusations on Thursday that it initially turned him away because he was a poor African immigrant without insurance.” [http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/09/us-health-ebola-usa-hospital-idUSKCN0HY2HQ20141009](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/09/us-health-ebola-usa-hospital-idUSKCN0HY2HQ20141009) Of course something like that never happens in America, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768.md?page=4)