# The Dallas ebola guy just died. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 8, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768 "2014-10-08T16:25:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/101 "2014-10-15T16:04:40Z")
> [@bup](#): > > From [CNN.com](http://CNN.com): [“The second Dallas health care worker with Ebola was on a flight from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday – the day before she reported symptoms, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday.”](http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html) \ But that’s ok because we’re really sure that patients cannot spread the infection before they are symptomatic because experts told us so. And the experts are really sure because [del]they conducted an experiment and[/del] [del]they observed patients after a known exposure but before they were symptomatic and[/del] [del]they tested viral loads and viral shedding in those under observation and[/del] experts told them so. And fever [del]is always the first[/del] is a symptom so any body aches or fatigue the patient might have had before definitely could [del]not[/del] be a symptom and [del]probably[/del] mean they were just tired and needed to rest. \ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/102 "2014-10-15T16:04:46Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Doffing:[ol] > [li]Wipe outer gloves with bleach before opening door to exit patient room.[/li][li]Step out of room onto pre-positioned doffing pad (think specialized non-absorbent tarp) with pre-positioned trash can with liner.[/li][li]Once on doffing pad, carefully remove duct tape which you used to tape outer gloves to sleeves of gown. Gently discard tape in trash can.[/li][li]Pinch left\* hand glove on the inner wrist with thumb and forefinger of right hand. Pull gently towards fingertips of left hand until pinched glove starts to roll inside-out off the hand. Remove left glove inside-out, wadding it into a ball. Hold discarded glove in right hand. Slide forefinger of left hand inside right glove at the inner wrist. Pull right glove away from wrist slightly and towards fingertips of right hand until right glove starts to roll inside-out. Continue pulling right glove off inside-out leaving left glove inside the right. Gently discard gloves in trash can.\*\*[/li][li]Gently untie the gown closures. As much as possible pull your hands up inside the sleeves of the gown. Gently start to gather the gown keeping the dirty surfaces to the inside, rolling it up as it slides off. [/li][li]Gently discard gown in trash can.[/li][li]Remove leg boot covers one at a time. Roll them inside out as you remove them, if possible. Minimize contact between hands and clothing.[/li][li]Step into new clean area of doffing pad. Gently discard leg boot covers in the trash. Refrain from returning to the soiled part of the doffing pad from this point forward.[/li][li]Remove inner standard patient care gloves using previous technique and place them in the trash.[/li][li]Wash hands using pre-positioned hand sanitizer. Do not leave doffing pad.[/li][li]Put on a new pair of clean gloves.[/li][li]Grab rear strap of face shield. Tip head so chin is down. Lift face shield strap up at rear of head, Allow face shield to fall away from face. [/li][li]Discard face shield in trash.[/li][li]Untie strap for head and neck covers. Gently, pull off head and neck cover and discard in trash.[/li][li]Hold lower corners of face respirator mask with fingers of left\* hand without touching skin. Expose as little of the mask’s dirty surface as possible to your gloves hands. Use right hand to lift each strap of the respirator mask over the back of your head. [/li][li]Discard respirator mask in trash can. The surgical cap may move with the respirator mask straps as they are moved. [/li][li]Gently remove surgical cap while minimizing contact with its contaminated surfaces. [/li][li]Discard surgical cap in trash can.[/li][li]Disinfect top and bottom of shoes by wiping with bleach. Discard wipes in trash can.[/li][li]Step off doffing pad. Gather up the pad, rolling contaminated surface towards the inside.[/li][li]Place rolled doffing pad in trash can.[/li][li]Remove gloves using above described glove-in-glove technique.[/li][li]Discard gloves in trash can.[/li][li]Wash hands with hand sanitizer.[/li][li]Take a full body shower.[/li][li]Take your vital signs.[/li][li]Rehydrate.[/li][/ol] Please tell me they are playing romantic music in the background. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/103 "2014-10-15T16:07:00Z")
This is definitely shaking my previous confidence that “Ebola will be easily contained in developed countries”. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/104 "2014-10-15T17:16:50Z")
On the bright side, at least it’s only health care workers caring for Patient Zero that are getting this, at a time when the suffering patient is going to be near their maximum concentration of viral particles. From what I know, neither Duncan’s girlfriend nor her family in that apartment have come down with it yet, despite his being really sick at the time. This is going to make health care workers incredibly gun-shy—deservedly so—and the costs to protect them, and the ancillary costs from shutting down large chunks of a big hospital like Dallas Presbyterian are going to be staggering, but at least the disease isn’t out spreading in the wild in the West. Yet. OTOH, importing people from hot zones _sans_ quarantine needs to stop now. If not sooner. Given the 1 billion USD per year that CDC has been getting, and the gigantic expansion of Customs with the formation of DHS, this should be relatively easy to accomplish. Or so you’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Clarisse\_McClellan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Clarisse\_McClellan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarisse_McClellan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/105 "2014-10-15T17:28:47Z")
Call me crazy, but shouldnt there be some protocol in place for testing caregivers to make sure they dont have ebola before allowing them to do such things as seal themselves inside a metal object with 120 other people or, you know, travel at all? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/106 "2014-10-15T17:40:03Z")
Forget protocol. If I thought I might have been exposed Ebola, I’d self quarantine as much as possible till I knew the danger WAS PASSED. To do otherwise is just irresponsible. If somebody gets Ebola from this second health care worker, the experts credibility is shot. And IMO it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/107 "2014-10-15T17:54:25Z")
> [@Clarisse\_McClellan](#): > > Call me crazy, but shouldnt there be some protocol in place for testing caregivers to make sure they dont have ebola before allowing them to do such things as seal themselves inside a metal object with 120 other people or, you know, travel at all? I know, right? I was just ranting to my roommate about how much they’ve really screwed this up. I mean, it’s almost scary at the lack of common sense that has been happening here. “Oh, I treated a guy who is confirmed to have ebola. I think I’ll get on a plane and travel now.” Like you said, I don’t know what is more stupid: The fact that she seemed to think all this herself without blinking an eye or the fact that the people she worked for let her do it without testing first. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/108 "2014-10-15T18:14:00Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I know, right? I was just ranting to my roommate about how much they’ve really screwed this up. > I mean, it’s almost scary at the lack of common sense that has been happening here. > > “Oh, I treated a guy who is confirmed to have ebola. I think I’ll get on a plane and travel now.” > > Like you said, I don’t know what is more stupid: The fact that she seemed to think all this herself without blinking an eye or the fact that the people she worked for let her do it without testing first. Idle, what would you like the caregivers to do? Self-isolate themselves from anyone other than hospital workers as long they have an Ebola victim in their ward? Plus the 21 days that it’ll take for them to show symptoms? You thought you had a hard time getting people to show up to work now… Either the ordinary U.S. hospital containment procedures work, or they don’t. It really looks like, in the case of end-stage Ebola infection, they don’t. If that means bagging all confirmed patients in a BL-4 bubble and sending them to one of the three hospitals that has its shit together, then I guess that’s what they’re going to have to do. At least until the 23 total isolation beds those facilities have fill up. Or CDC can take some of its 1 billion dollar budget and ensure that major hospitals in the, say, top 50 U.S. metro areas, have positive pressure respirators, total isolation suits, and all of the other panoply needed to deal with a secreting, heavily contaminated patient. Thinking about instilling true triage—i.e., maybe not dialyzing, entubating, or performing other invasive procedures on a Ebola patient in organ failure—may be called for too. Someone will have to come in and indemnify the hospital that tries that though. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/109 "2014-10-15T18:30:53Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Idle, what would you like the caregivers to do? Self-isolate themselves from anyone other than hospital workers as long they have an Ebola victim in their ward? Why does it have to be that extreme? I’d settle for, as the post I was quoting said, just doing testing or screening. Barring that (due to the possibility of no symptoms yet), then YES…at the very least, not booking an actual flight and taking it right after you’ve treated someone with it. I mean, I’m not really sure how you got “Flying after treating that guy was stupid” to transform into “She should be cut off from the entire world.” My opinion is just that they really screwed all of this up fairly well, which seems to be a common opinion in this thread, and I just don’t understand why she thought flying was a good idea after treating an ebola patient. Seems waiting an extra day or two would have saved a lot of trouble. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/110 "2014-10-15T19:33:44Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Forget protocol. > > If I thought I might have been exposed Ebola, I’d self quarantine as much as possible till I knew the danger WAS PASSED. I’d make a list of people to sneeze on. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/111 "2014-10-15T19:58:44Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Why does it have to be that extreme? I’d settle for, as the post I was quoting said, just doing testing or screening. > Barring that (due to the possibility of no symptoms yet), then YES…at the very least, not booking an actual flight and taking it right after you’ve treated someone with it… My point **Idle** is, why is flying not O.K., but her going to, say, the large Whole Foods down the street at Park Lane is? Either way, she’s exposing a bunch of people—potentially—to a virus she may or may not have. From everything I’ve seen, she self-isolated as soon as she was symptomatic. Now, if she flew on that plane while she knew she was suffering a fever, then yeah, I’ll join in the anger at her. That would have been irresponsible of her. But if the caregivers can’t be around the general public so long as Ebola patients are on their ward, even if the caregivers aren’t symptomatic and the caregivers are screening themselves for any sign of symptoms, then you’re not going to have many people show up for work. And that will be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/112 "2014-10-15T20:19:37Z")
The CDC and state health departments both have a blood test for Ebola. I wonder how sensitive this blood test is: i.e. if this woman would have tested positive the day of her flight, or the day before. How hard would it be to regularly test the blood of all ~100 people who are potentially exposed in this case, maybe every 4 days until they are past the incubation period? Presumably it would be expensive, but if there ever were a case were the Federal government should step in and throw some money around… ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/113 "2014-10-15T20:22:36Z")
So, apparently, [the lapse in protocol at the Dallas Hospital was egregious](http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/15/6984737/hospital-workers-went-two-days-without-face-protection-Ebola-patient-Dallas). ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/114 "2014-10-15T20:40:48Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > …Now, if she flew on that plane while she knew she was suffering a fever, then yeah, I’ll join in the anger at her. That would have been irresponsible of her… Bring on the pitchforks and torches. [Dallas Ebola Nurse Amber Vinson ‘Should Not Have Traveled,’ CDC Head Says](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/dallas-ebola-nurse-amber-vinson-should-not-have-traveled-cdc-n226551) > [@](#): > > Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told reporters that the nurse had a temperature of 99.5 degrees before she got on the plane on Monday. > > Because of that reading, and because she had treated Thomas Eric Duncan, the first Ebola patient diagnosed in the United States, the nurse should not have been on the plane, he said. > > “She should not have traveled on a commercial airline,” Frieden said. My understanding is, the problem with even the fast PCR Ebola test is that it takes nearly a day to run. So there’s a bit of lag. I do not know whether the blood test is capable of detecting the virus quicker than, say, a simple temperature reading would. I also don’t know if a carrier is capable of passing the virus on—\*while asymptomatic \*or mildly feverish—absent something like vomiting/defecating on someone else’s open wound. I have read of worrying thoughts that carriers may indeed be capable of passing on the infection, before they start to spike a fever. I don’t know how true that is though, and if it were, you’d really think Duncan’s family would have started to show symptoms long before. But if it is true, it might be time to actually quarantine caregivers of Ebola patients. Scary times. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/115 "2014-10-15T22:10:50Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_Ducky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrs_ducky/32/6227_2.png) [@Mrs\_Ducky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_Ducky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/116 "2014-10-15T22:12:07Z")
My NORMAL body temperature is 99.6. Every time I go to the doctor they ask me if I’ve recently been sick. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/117 "2014-10-15T22:41:33Z")
The problem with “stop the planes” is that governments and NGOs WILL stop their programs if they can’t get their staff to safety. That is a fact. Organizations do not operate where there is no evacuation. Liberia isn’t going to contain Ebola without a healthy system, and none of the surrounding countries are able to secure their borders. Wait a few more months, and you’ve got a much bigger problem over a wider area. And we will, one way or another, end up involved. Either we do this now, or we do it later, when it is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/118 "2014-10-16T05:10:31Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Bring on the pitchforks and torches. [Dallas Ebola Nurse Amber Vinson ‘Should Not Have Traveled,’ CDC Head Says](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/dallas-ebola-nurse-amber-vinson-should-not-have-traveled-cdc-n226551) Yes, well, guess [who](http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/10/15/second-dallas-hospital-worker-diagnosed-ebola/17290677/) approved her travel!? ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/119 "2014-10-16T11:16:05Z")
Question: They are saying they didn’t have enough protective gear, but if it’s not airborne, why do they need the positive-pressure respirators? If it’s only transmittable through bodily fluids (like HIV), why aren’t the same precautions used for treating HIV patients working for those treating ebola? Wouldn’t this imply that its actually more contagious than HIV? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768/120 "2014-10-16T11:57:22Z")
HIV doesn’t make you spontaneously puke, shit, and bleed from every orifice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dallas-ebola-guy-just-died/700768.md?page=7)