# The Dam Busters (Peter Jackson) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 16, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313 "2010-10-16T02:38:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313/41 "2019-01-01T18:20:18Z")
“(a) for a dam or a dyke only if it is used for other than its normal function and in regular, significant and direct support of military operations and if such attack is the only feasible way to terminate such support;” **only if it is used for other than its normal function** **regular, significant, and direct support** Does not apply. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313/42 "2019-01-01T19:01:44Z")
> [@brossa](#): > > “(a) for a dam or a dyke only if it is used for other than its normal function and in regular, significant and direct support of military operations and if such attack is the only feasible way to terminate such support;” > > **only if it is used for other than its normal function** > **regular, significant, and direct support** > > Does not apply. • The dams _were_ used “for other than their normal function”, i.e. they were used to generate power for manufacturing large quantities of war supplies. • “Regular, significant, and direct support of military operations” - beyond all doubt. Do you think all the regular bombing raids on the Ruhr were also unacceptable? The dam busters raid didn’t have as much effect as they hoped, but according to [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Ruhr): > [@](#): > > In his study of the German war economy, Adam Tooze stated that during the Battle of the Ruhr, Bomber Command severely disrupted German production. Steel production fell by 200,000 tons. The armaments industry was facing a steel shortfall of 400,000 tons. After doubling production in 1942, production of steel increased only by 20 percent in 1943. Hitler and Speer were forced to cut planned increases in production. This disruption resulted in the Zulieferungskrise (sub-components crisis). The increase of aircraft production for the Luftwaffe also came to an abrupt halt. Monthly production failed to increase between July 1943 and March 1944. “Bomber Command had stopped Speer’s armaments miracle in its tracks”.[24] > > At Essen after more than 3,000 sorties and the loss of 138 aircraft, the “Krupp works…and the town…itself contained large areas of devastation”, and Krupp never restarted locomotive production after the second March raid.[4] Should they have refrained from all that bombing, because of civilian and forced labour casualties? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313/43 "2019-01-01T19:18:33Z")
If generating electricity which, among others uses, is used in factories which produce arms counts as direct military support, the term loses all meaning. Virtually any piece of infrastructure in a country which is at war could be construed as providing such support and large parts of the Geneva convention would be rendered meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313/44 "2019-01-01T20:48:01Z")
I think what it comes down to is that every country will claim that their targets were significantly-enough military, and the people being bombed will claim that they weren’t, and the matter will end up getting resolved by who has the greater capability to enforce their interpretation. Which, ultimately, isn’t much different from the situation without the Conventions. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313/45 "2019-01-01T21:34:27Z")
I think the music starts at about 2:20 here. And the video gets QEII an IMDb credit. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1AS-dCdYZbo/maxresdefault.jpg "James Bond and The Queen London 2012 Performance") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AS-dCdYZbo) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313/46 "2019-01-01T22:35:22Z")
Probably none of HM’s corgis would be called “Blackie”… or anything like it. ---
**Author:** ![HyacinthBucket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hyacinthbucket/32/3063_2.png) [@HyacinthBucket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HyacinthBucket)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313/47 "2019-01-04T07:53:03Z")
Just a side note to point out again that not all the places bombed by the Germans were military - a friend who lives in Wick, one of the Scottish towns mentioned in the article, told me about this a while back. The town still holds a memorial service every year on the anniversary of the bombing: \*"\*\*Scotland’s smaller air raids during World War Two \*\* "… In total, there were more than 500 German air raids on Scotland - ranging from single aircraft hit-and-runs, to mass bombings by 240 planes. During the air war in Scotland, 2,500 people died and 8,000 were injured. What may well have been the first random attack directed at civilians on the British mainland - rather than a military target such as Scapa Flow or the Rosyth docks - took place in Wick on 1 July 1940. Several died in an unexpected attack on the harbour. Part of the bombsite was only finally redeveloped a few years ago…"\* > **[Scotland's smaller air raids during World War Two](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34845284)** > > BBC Scotland's Jamie McIvor looks at the attacks carried out on smaller towns across Scotland during World War Two. Then, as now, the only landmark in Wick of any international import was the Old Pulteney Distillery. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313/48 "2019-01-08T22:43:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For ordinary bombing, the accuracy of the day didn’t allow for targets much smaller than cities. If you wanted to bomb a weapons factory (a legitimate target even by modern standards), pretty much the only way to do it was by targeting the city the factories were in. At night. The 8th AF was more accurate during the daytime, although they were still wildly indiscriminate by modern standards. What they’d do was have the lead bomber in a formation use the bombsight, and the other bombers, keeping a tight formation, would just drop when he did. [This could be pretty accurate, believe it or not.](https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/9-october-1943/) So still pretty indiscriminate, in that the bombs were dropped as a formation en masse, but more accurate than the Bomber Command method of just bombing city centers deliberately. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dam-busters-peter-jackson/557313.md?page=2)