# The Dance With Dragons discussion thread (open spoilers!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998 "2011-07-14T12:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/221 "2011-08-29T13:36:54Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > ``` > Much will also depend on what kind of deal they have cut with with Martin. Do they have the freedom to make major departures from the books and to finish the story if he doesn't? > > ``` I read an interview where he stated that he told the show’s producers the broad strokes of how the story ends, in case he doesn’t finish the series. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/222 "2011-08-29T13:46:05Z")
Rome cost twice as much to make as GoT, they basically built a city to use as a set. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/223 "2011-08-29T14:58:33Z")
BTW nobody actually believed that was really Aegon right? One of the things Qaithe warned Dany about was a mummers dragon, obviously hinting at the fake Targaryen. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/224 "2011-08-29T15:07:37Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > BTW nobody actually believed that was really Aegon right? One of the things Qaithe warned Dany about was a mummers dragon, obviously hinting at the fake Targaryen. I do. How did they fake eye color? “Mummer” doesn’t automatically mean false. It’s hardly beyond the eunuch to pull off a corpse swap with an infant. It fits neatly with who he is. If I’m wrong, whatever, but I’m not looking for a twist. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/225 "2011-08-29T15:13:34Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I do. How did they fake eye color? “Mummer” doesn’t automatically mean false. It’s hardly beyond the eunuch to pull off a corpse swap with an infant. It fits neatly with who he is. If I’m wrong, whatever, but I’m not looking for a twist. Doesn’t have to be fake. The Targaryens aren’t the only family in the world with Old Valyrian blood. In fact, we were introduced to another through portraiture and memory just a few chapters before we were introduced to “Aegon”, which _I_ think was no coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/226 "2011-08-29T15:40:28Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Doesn’t have to be fake. The Targaryens aren’t the only family in the world with Old Valyrian blood. In fact, we were introduced to another through portraiture and memory just a few chapters before we were introduced to “Aegon”, which _I_ think was no coincidence. In “A Feast For Crows”, Cersei notes that there are plenty of people who look Targaryen-ish when thinking about the Bastard of Driftmark. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/227 "2011-08-29T15:57:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Doesn’t have to be fake. The Targaryens aren’t the only family in the world with Old Valyrian blood. In fact, we were introduced to another through portraiture and memory just a few chapters before we were introduced to “Aegon”, which _I_ think was no coincidence. Was that Illiryo’s wife? He was _very_ interested in seeing that kid. And I vaguely recall that Varys had been a mummer. So, the mummer’s dragon = Varys’ dragon. And no way I’m trusting something that Varys set up. _Particularly_ since he wouldn’t have put all the work in he’s done for Daenerys if he had another Targaryean in the wings. And I don’t think Illiryo would’ve given his dragon eggs to Daeny if _he_ knew of another true Targaryean. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/228 "2011-08-29T16:22:05Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > And I don’t think Illiryo would’ve given his dragon eggs to Daeny if _he_ knew of another true Targaryean. Well, the intent was for Aegon (fake or otherwise) to meet up and join with Dany. I think it’s likely that Aegon believes himself to be the real deal. Connington may also believe it. I won’t completely dismiss his authenticity just yet. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/229 "2011-08-29T16:31:05Z")
There was a mummer’s dragon in visions she had at the house of undying also, she even talks about it to Jorah. She tells them they are used to give the heroes something to fight. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/230 "2011-08-29T16:43:58Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Was that Illiryo’s wife? He was _very_ interested in seeing that kid. Yes, that’s who I meant. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/231 "2011-08-29T16:47:00Z")
Earlier in the thread someone suggested that “Aegon” could be Illyrio’s son and that makes a lot of sense. There are a few hints: his eagerness to meet the boy, Tyrion’s questions about Illyrio’s real motives etc. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/232 "2011-08-30T01:33:08Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > How did they fake eye color? Although I’m with you in provisionally assuming Aegon is genuine, eye color is certainly no guarantee in a book with people who can instantly change their entire face, and with at least three different kinds of animate corpses (wights, Cat, and Frankengregor). ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Baroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Billy\_Baroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Baroo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/233 "2011-08-30T09:48:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And the sad thing is that it wasn’t even Euron, who may be the most interesting Ironman at this point, just for the sake of what kind of powers and allies he’s amassed, but Victarion, who isn’t even as interesting as Asha and Theon. Victarion had the POV chapter named _The Reaver_ in a previous book, yes? That was a kickass introduction for the character, and his unparalleled brutality delightfully continues in this book. I have high hopes for continued salty smashings in chapters to come. He and Dany have some commonality: both love to fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Baroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Billy\_Baroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Baroo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/234 "2011-08-30T15:15:48Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I still maintain that following his trek across the continent was pointless. One point: we get the two knights who are now working for Selmy. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/235 "2011-08-30T15:23:59Z")
> [@Billy\_Baroo](#): > > One point: we get the two knights who are now working for Selmy. Again, a small thing for that many pages. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Baroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Billy\_Baroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Baroo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/236 "2011-08-30T16:08:12Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Again, a small thing for that many pages. Possibly not a small thing: unlike Frog’s, their storyline continues. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/237 "2011-09-02T00:42:47Z")
Did anyone else feel Jon Snow was wrong about wanting to rescue those wildlings from hardhome? After what happened at the fist and the letter from the ships that had suicide mission written all over it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/238 "2011-09-02T16:57:10Z")
DigitalC: Yes, I think it was a mistake of Biblical proportions. I believe Snow is the only one who can keep the Wildings and the Rangers halfway cooperative. If he leaves, they’ll be at each other’s throats in jig time (if they weren’t already doing so at the end of ADWD). ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/239 "2011-09-02T17:42:50Z")
How in the hell can the Night’s Watch continue to exist after they murdered two of their own Lord Commanders IN A ROW? If anyone else in the kingdom with half a brain would notice, they might be disbanded for their total incompetence and depravity. And who the hell would want to be Lord Commander after seeing what happened to Mormont and Jon Snow? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/240 "2011-09-02T17:53:05Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > How in the hell can the Night’s Watch continue to exist after they murdered two of their own Lord Commanders IN A ROW? If anyone else in the kingdom with half a brain would notice, they might be disbanded for their total incompetence and depravity. And who the hell would want to be Lord Commander after seeing what happened to Mormont and Jon Snow? Even beyond that (Who wants to be King’s Hand when they seem to have the life expectancy of a gnat?), as far as the Seven Kingdoms are concerned the purpose of the Watch is to keep the wildlings out. And now they’ve gone ahead and let them through. So, really, nobody is going to take them seriously anymore. Their existence is moot. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998.md?page=13)