# The Dance With Dragons discussion thread (open spoilers!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998 "2011-07-14T12:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/61 "2011-07-23T01:47:54Z")
> [@Pyper](#): > > Okay, but when and how did he kill them and bake them into pies? That’s not explained. However, the road to Winterfell is long. Use your imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/62 "2011-07-23T18:02:24Z")
Hitler gets spoiled. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/l0Jm_mT1G8Q/hqdefault.jpg "Hitler learns the end of A Dance with Dragons -SPOILERS.wmv") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Jm_mT1G8Q) ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/63 "2011-07-23T18:07:23Z")
Oh, a great catch that someone found on another board: Mirri says that Dany will have a child when “the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas dry up, when the mountains blow in the wind like leaves.” We all probably took that to mean she’s barren forever. However, Quentyn (the son) rose in Dorne (the west) and died in Mereen (the east). Her dragons could burn the Dothraki sea down and crush the pyramids in Mereen. Sounds to me like this theory has a decent shot at being correct. Especially if Dany is having a miscarriage at the end of ADWD. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/64 "2011-07-23T18:13:14Z")
> [@Pyper](#): > > Okay, but when and how did he kill them and bake them into pies? Also, it just clicked that Abel is an anagram for Bael. Bael was the singer that Mance told Jon Snow about, who stole a daughter of Winterfell a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/65 "2011-07-24T01:03:19Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Oh, a great catch that someone found on another board: Mirri says that Dany will have a child when “the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas dry up, when the mountains blow in the wind like leaves.” I read that at Westeros. But that prophecy is not actually about Dany having a child. Technically, it’s about when Drogo will recover his mind and strength, and be as he was. Maybe Dany shoulda waited for him to get better instead of, you know, smothering him. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > We all probably took that to mean she’s barren forever. However, Quentyn (the son) rose in Dorne (the west) and died in Mereen (the east). Her dragons could burn the Dothraki sea down and crush the pyramids in Mereen. Sounds to me like this theory has a decent shot at being correct. Especially if Dany is having a miscarriage at the end of ADWD. The Mountain part of the prophecy struck me more as Ser Frankengregor losing his fight at Cersei’s trial. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/66 "2011-07-24T05:52:21Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I wasn’t nearly as negative about it as some of you, although I agree that it was nowhere near as good as Storm of Swords. A lot of build up, and very little climax. All this build up to Stannis attacking Winterfell, and it all happens off screen (we’re supposed to assume that we can believe the contents of Ramsay’s letter, I guess?). All this build up of Victarion heading to Mereen… and he doesn’t get there. All this build up of Tyrion making contact with Dany… and it never happens…Davos was interesting, and while I like the idea of him going after Rickon, the whole “well, I’d like to help you, but first you must go on this quest for me” thing is pretty hackneyed. Dany’s stuff was good and interesting, but again, repetitive. And I agree that her just locking the dragons up is insane. I do like the growth we’ve gotten from Barristan, however. I agree with this quoted stuff. I think I wasn’t as hard on the book as… well, everyone else here, it seems, because I just don’t give a fuck about all the prophecy stuff. To me, whenever an author throws in prophecy, or dreams, it’s the author _trying_ to fuck with his readers. It’s either inscrutable to the point of being worthless (which often leads to something being shoehorned in after the fact, which isn’t very satisfying), or it’s supposed to make everyone thing think X and then feel smart for figuring it out, when it ends up being thing Y. So I don’t much pay attention to prophecy and just enjoy the ride. - I bet next book, we’ll get chapters with obnoxious titles like “The Wolf Man” or “The Ghost in Ghost” or something, from the perspective of Jon in Ghost’s body… and then Mellisandre will zap him back to life. Seriously, changing Sansa’s name as she assumed a new identity was fine. Doing it for Theon/Reek… eh, OK, but that’s it. But did Victarion need new names? Quentyn? Even Selmy? Even if you’re saying it’s because they’ve changed so much, it’s inconsistent. Daenerys was Daenerys, even when she went from Killer Dragon to Queen of Indecision. Jamie’s changed a ton, but his chapters are still Jamie. It’s just annoying, George, cool it. - It seemed out of character for (a) Jon to suddenly decide to go off to war against the Boltons with his Wildings and his loophole and (b) his men to just as suddenly decide to stab him rather than, you know, confronting him. - Heh, I didn’t piece together that Abel was Mance Rayder until… well, before Ramsay’s letter, but after Theon’s last POV chapter. Even when it was pretty clear that the women were Wildings, I thought they were tied to Osha, not Rayder. - Someone explain to me how Asha didn’t die when Stannis’ army fell upon her? It’s dark, frenetic, her troops are massively outnumbered, she’s not the kind to surrender… Pretty weak, George. - I don’t mind Aegon being alive – I mean, how many different examples have we had of one group of kids being passed off for others? The miller’s kids for Bran and Rickon, Jeyne for Arya, Sansa as Littlefinger’s daughter… fits for me. And I don’t buy that “mummer’s dragon” necessarily means “fake dragon.” Varys was a mummer, if I recall correctly, so it could just mean “Varys’ dragon.” Doesn’t mean he’s fake. Plus, see my opinion above about the bullshit that is prophecy. - I can almost buy Daenerys being paralyzed with guilt and her sense of pan-motherhood. Almost. I think Martin could have justified it better, because it seems to have happened off-screen, in between ASoS and this book. - I thought Barristan was going to die when he was donning all his white armor. I’m glad he didn’t – he’s obviously one of the least morally ambiguous characters in the series, but I like him all the same. - Ramsay’s letter is obviously a ploy, but I can’t figure out what he was trying to gain. I don’t think Stannis is dead (maybe, I dunno), but I think the banker randomly getting to his army can’t simply result in, “Nope, Stannis and his army got slaughtered anyway, and offscreen to boot.” - Man, I absolutely cannot keep all the pre-GoT history straight. Summerhall? The Blackfyre and Bittersteel and other bastard dragon stuff? The Prince of Dragonflies and this mystery night and that mystery knight? Feh. Aegon IV and Aeron and Aergon and Daegon and Faegon and Kaygon and Aeryon? Seriously, I’m supposed to keep that straight? (And also with the pseudo-Persian/Turkish names, with three parts and all the h’s and z’s, but it seems there weren’t as many of them as there could have been.) - Finally, splitting the book geographically was a terrible decision, and I don’t see any reason for it. What, it was that important to keep from us how Davos lived? (I mean, no one thought he was dead for real, right?) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/67 "2011-07-24T10:36:07Z")
> [@Snarky Kong](#): > > Yeah, he baked them into pies. He calls out for Abel (Mance) to since about the Rat King. In one of the earlier books Bran tells how the Rat King baked some guests into a pie. I’m not quite getting it. Where does it reference the fact that me made them into pies? ---
**Author:** ![Spectralist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Spectralist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectralist)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/68 "2011-07-24T12:41:51Z")
Manderly was eating three pork pies with very suspicious glee. And three Freys were missing, at least two of which it’s basically certain he had killed he on the way to Winterfell. Then he asked for the Rat King song to be played. The whole thing seems to be his take on I don’t know, mocking, the Freys for their lack of respect for Guest Right. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/69 "2011-07-24T15:15:40Z")
Overall I was fairly disappointed with the plot - too many pieces moving around and not enough captures. I was looking forward to Cersei’s trial and denied that. But still, it’s Martin, and the book was still entertaining. But the big problem, besides the lack of Big Moments, was so much time spent away from Westeros. I care far more for what happens to that continent, and everything else is just a sideshow for now. > [@](#): > > For me, the biggest problem is that GRRM has drifted away from what he is best at. So much of the volume of the novel is spent outside Westeros, the country he has spent the last four thousand pages building up. The Wall is liminal and mostly disconnected from Westerosi politics, and Free Cities/Valyria/whatever crap is just a colorless calque of Hyboria. We need more screen time for the Boltons, Manderlys, and Freys. Fewer slaves, eunuchs, and other orientalizing grotesqueries. Events outside Westeros really should be used as a palette cleanser, emphatically not the main event. Daenerys was never a particularly interesting character, so she really does not have the depth to bear the kind of focus GRRM is placing on her now. Less Daenerys, more Blackfish please. The Davos chapters reminded me why I read these books in the first place. > > The only part of the book that really held together were North plotlines. They were more in keeping with what made SoS such a great book in the first place. I agree. Random stray observations: The Danaerys chapters were a real drag until the pit fight (although I think there was only one after that). Blah blah, peace with Yunkai, holding court, starvation, pestilence, etc. Get on with it. I agree that her character regressed in these chapters. I liked Jon’s chapters, although the last few started to get repetitive. Yeah, sheltering the Wildlings, people get upset, the Queen gets increasingly frustrated, etc. I can forgive that because Tormund Giantsbane is easily my favorite new character. Davos was set up nicely to go find Bran, but then nothing more came of that, which was disappointing. I guess that got pushed to book 6. His chapters were some of my favorite, not just because of him but because of Lord Manderly and how he is shown to actually be a somewhat major player instead of a fat version of Lysa Arryn, refusing to get in fights. Is Manderly dead now? He was stabbed but his fate was left to be ambiguous. I’m curious to see how Victarion’s fleet is going to change things in Meereen. We know the Yunkai’i are basically walking dead, so they shouldn’t be a problem. Whatever, I don’t care what happens as long as Victarion doesn’t end up with Dany, because I hate the ironborn and hope they all burn. Jon may be dead for now, but I am convinced that Melisandre will revive him in book 6. If a petty red priest can revive Beric so many times and he’s still got his wits about him, surely Melisandre can do it too. There will be a wolf interlude, of course. When I first read his death I put down my book and cursed Martin. Then I read it again and cursed him again, and slept on it. In the morning I realized that the red mage being there was just too convenient, and he’d be back eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/70 "2011-07-24T15:20:09Z")
Something I found in the AV Club review comments: > [@](#): > > Varys seems to be running a loooooong game. I didn’t relize it until this was pointed out on TV Tropes, but Spider may be doing what he did as a thief: stealing something valuable (the Iron Throne) and selling it back. Seems accurate. I still think that Varys and Littlefinger are the only true players left in the Game of Thrones, and I look forward to their eventual clash. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/71 "2011-07-25T10:44:00Z")
I finished it last night, and really mostly struggled while reading not to :o, in fact a couple of times had to force myself to go back to it. The worst part was Daenerys…:rolleyes: those chapters were so fucking boring that I began skimming them at some point. It took me a while to realize he was marking time with her to let the plot catch up, but why so many chapters then instead of just not going to her so often 😕 At least there were a few parts that were :eek:, but more often it was :dubious:. I wish Jon would stay dead. I wished Tyrion would stay dead. And now we have to wait five more years for potential crap. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/72 "2011-07-25T13:07:07Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > And now we have to wait five more years for potential crap. :smack: Not me. “Dance” had the same effect for ASoIaF that “Changes” had for the Dresden Files – I’m done .. and glad that I did not totally forget the “fool me once, fool me twice”-rule: A friend of mine received his copy early, so I waited a bit before spending money, after “Feast” had bored me so much; he read a third of “Dance” and handed it over. Feast and Dance together could have been one decent transitionally book of 600 – 700 pages; .. separated by more than half a decade and bloated out of any proportion, they are a mess. Yes, there are gems within those 2,000+ pages and much information is given or hidden to be found, but the pacing is off, the narrative structure poor, the descriptions of Proust-like elaborateness without his gift for words and Martin far too often decided to show us the boring scene while more exciting events either happened elsewhere or could have happened instead.. And though Theon’s chapters were a pleasant surprise, I would have never guessed that I’d dread to see a Tyrion chapter coming next. And that he managed to reveal my low expectation of the Dany chapters as still far too optimistic is, well, let’s call it an accomplishment. Can anyone tell me why the author of the first three volumes was fired and substituted by that guy? I have read some great books this year, have high hopes for another one lying on my desk and don’t intend to let this author “thrice” me. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/73 "2011-07-25T17:13:11Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > - Heh, I didn’t piece together that Abel was Mance Rayder until… well, before Ramsay’s letter, but after Theon’s last POV chapter. Wait, what? Jon Snow is dead and in Ghost. That’s the only explanation for the prologue- to establish that wargs live on in their animals when they die. Maybe Mel will revive him- but I’m betting it won’t be Jon gets back happily ever after. Maybe after a few weeks of being a wolf he’ll be angry at being dragged back to the complicated human human world. Maybe she’ll accidentally summon the wrong soul, so that Ghost and Jon effectively switch bodies. I can think of all sorts of things that can go wrong. Add Ramsey Snow/Bolton to the list of “Characters fans would gladly feed to acid-breathing piranhas.” Next in line right after the Freys. Maybe even before them. If Arya does get her hearing and other senses taken away as part of her training, she’ll cheat. Now that she’s learned to warg with the cat, she’ll just use animals as her ears and whatnot. The priests will find out- either they’ll get suspicious that she copes so easily, notice certain animals following her around, feel her in their heads when she decides to try on a human for size, or all three. There will be _deep_ trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/74 "2011-07-25T17:22:15Z")
Oh, I forgot to add- I think Whatshisface Shavepate is the one behind the poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/75 "2011-07-25T17:31:08Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Jon Snow is dead and in Ghost. That’s the only explanation for the prologue- to establish that wargs live on in their animals when they die. Maybe Mel will revive him- but I’m betting it won’t be Jon gets back happily ever after. Maybe after a few weeks of being a wolf he’ll be angry at being dragged back to the complicated human human world. Maybe she’ll accidentally summon the wrong soul, so that Ghost and Jon effectively switch bodies. I can think of all sorts of things that can go wrong. Or Ghost will serve as an anchor for Jon’s soul and his death&resurrection won’t cause as much damage to him as it did to Ser Beric and Catelyn. ---
**Author:** ![Yogurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f0a364/32.png) [@Yogurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yogurt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/76 "2011-07-25T18:27:54Z")
I finished reading it on Friday night and I was terribly underwhelmed. I had such high expectations, and as mentioned up thread, none of them were met. It was like a middling Robert Jordan book/nightmare again. The books was full of words, yet nothing happened… I understand Dorne’s master plan failed, and it’s backup plan failed. That could have been told in one or two chapters… The snow… I get it. There’s a lot of it and it really hinders military operations. Napoleon and Hitler learned this the hard way, I don’t need too. The last Jon Snow chapter finally had me excited. SOMETHING big is going to happen. He’s going to ride down to Winterfell with his barbarian horde and we’re finally going to get some action, but ugh… cliff hanger. I’m still a sucker, and I’ll buy the next novel, but geeez… Will I reread the first four like I did this time in preparation, probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/77 "2011-07-25T19:54:27Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > Or Ghost will serve as an anchor for Jon’s soul and his death&resurrection won’t cause as much damage to him as it did to Ser Beric and Catelyn. Melisandre had some sort of vision about Jon turning from a man into a wolfman and back, didn’t she? Presumably, Jon will be in his wolfman stage when next we see him. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/78 "2011-07-25T21:29:49Z")
Martin is only 62, but looks like he’s in his 70’s so he may or may not be around in 5-10 years to finish the next book. Based on his wiki he seems very stubborn (which can be good and bad) and I doubt he will take to heart any of the “clean up your writing” criticism, especially now that the series is ascendant. He’s a very talented guy, but someone needs to help him editorial direction on finishing this book series. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/79 "2011-07-25T22:16:23Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Not me. “Dance” had the same effect for ASoIaF that “Changes” had for the Dresden Files – I’m done Heh…I remember that thread. Harry and the Super Friends! > [@](#): > > .. and glad that I did not totally forget the “fool me once, fool me twice”-rule: A friend of mine received his copy early, so I waited a bit before spending money, after “Feast” had bored me so much; he read a third of “Dance” and handed it over. Hmmm, I’m not quite there yet. I walked away from Wheel of Time around book 7 and never looked back, but then I found all the characters annoying. I’ll give GRRM a chance…though I may wait a week after publication to watch the Amazon ratings. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998/80 "2011-07-26T00:05:11Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Hmmm, I’m not quite there yet. I walked away from Wheel of Time around book 7 and never looked back, but then I found all the characters annoying. I’ll give GRRM a chance…though I may wait a week after publication to watch the Amazon ratings. Yeah, when people whose taste are akin to mine were to rave about the next installment, telling me that I cannot possibly miss that one, I’d consider it stupid to play the stubborn curmudgeon and not borrow it at least. But in the meantime and any other event, it’s a thing of the past. Since you mention Jordan, the same friend who didn’t finish “Dance” had urged me to read the Wheel-series when it was still at book .. three, I think. He swore that I’d finally give up my snobbish disdain of fantasy and repent my mistake. When I realized that I couldn’t stand a single female character in book 1, I stopped reading and stayed .. snobbish – till I read A Game of Thrones. From what I hear, I was lucky to escape the Wheel before the mere mention of tapestry and braids in harmless conversation would trigger amok runs, just like I consider myself fortunate to have stopped after the first season of LOST (the pilot had been so exciting) and during the first of BSG (loved the mini series) – if the gist of what I heard is true about the contortions and solutions in both series during later stages. I think, the time is right to walk away from the Song. If later books prove me wrong, I won’t mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dance-with-dragons-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/588998.md?page=5)