# The Dare Stones--Lost Colony of Roanoke **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 29, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980 "2015-11-29T22:23:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/1 "2015-11-29T22:23:42Z")
I’ve been under the assumption that the Dare stones were fakes, not considered by serious historians. Recently, there was a two hour special regarding the stones. They proved that all but the first stone was carved by a drill by a charlatan looking for money and/or fame. But the first stone was shown to have been carved by a chisel, and its Elizabethan English without flaw. The man who discovered it dropped it off at a university and left; never wanting money or fame. Why is it believed that this first stone is a forgery? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/2 "2015-11-30T04:50:25Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’ve been under the assumption that the Dare stones were fakes, not considered by serious historians. > > Recently, there was a two hour special regarding the stones. They proved that all but the first stone was carved by a drill by a charlatan looking for money and/or fame. But the first stone was shown to have been carved by a chisel, and its Elizabethan English without flaw. > > The man who discovered it dropped it off at a university and left; never wanting money or fame. > > Why is it believed that this first stone is a forgery? Where are you getting this? The wiki disagrees with you on several points. The whole thing was exposed as an obvious scan in 1941. > **[Dare Stones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dare_Stones)** > > The Dare Stones are a series of stones inscribed with messages supposedly written by members of the lost Roanoke Colony, allegedly discovered in various places across the Southeastern United States in the late 1930s.: back cover  The colonists were last seen on Roanoke Island, off the coast of what is now North Carolina, in August 1587, and the mystery of their disappearance has since become a part of American folklore.: 6–7  The stones created a media circus in the United States, as the A total ... > [@](#): > > The stones were exposed as forgeries by the journalist Boyden Sparkes in the Saturday Evening Post in 1941.[1] Without definitively indicating any individual as having responsibility, he raised a number of questions, both about the information given by the stones themselves, and about the characters and background of those who purported to have found them. He also questioned the circumstances of stones having travelled so far from where they were supposedly left by Eleanor Dare to the spot where they were found: Sparkes put it to Pearce that “it must have been an exceedingly friendly naked savage who had carried a twenty-one-pound stone message across hundreds of miles of South and North Carolina”. Sparkes also found evidence that someone had been attempting to sell a fake stone at Manteo, near Roanoke, shortly before the first stone was produced by Hammond. > > Hammond had only a post-office box for an address and could not be traced by Sparkes or even by the Pinkerton Detective Agency, and Sparkes noted that Emory University washed their hands of the business \*\*when Hammond proposed charging people to see the stone \*\*- it was at this stage that Pearce took the stone himself, to Brenau College which his family ran. The finders of the subsequent stones, Mr Eberhart, Mr Turner, Mr Bruce and Mr and Mrs Jett, all had connections with one another, and the first two (one of whom was a stonemason) had been friends for many years. Turner did not admit to any forgery when pressed by Sparkes, but said, “If those stones were crooked, Pearce knows who crooked 'em.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/3 "2015-11-30T11:53:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’ve been under the assumption that the Dare stones were fakes, not considered by serious historians. > > Recently, there was a two hour special regarding the stones. They proved that all but the first stone was carved by a drill by a charlatan looking for money and/or fame. But the first stone was shown to have been carved by a chisel, and its Elizabethan English without flaw. > > The man who discovered it dropped it off at a university and left; never wanting money or fame. > > Why is it believed that this first stone is a forgery? What “special” was this aired on? ---
**Author:** ![TheFaerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TheFaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFaerie)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/4 "2015-11-30T16:04:55Z")
And did they have a Templar cross on them? ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/5 "2015-11-30T17:14:53Z")
I saw that a few months back just another reality show they all are now 😃 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/6 "2015-11-30T17:45:52Z")
Isn’t it generally accepted that the Roanoke colonists simply joined with some Native Americans nearby? Wasn’t there some scribbled sign stating that, a similarly named tribe, and offspring that suspiciously looked like half Native American and half European that later colonists found? ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/7 "2015-11-30T19:23:34Z")
This was a History Channel documentary that I saw as well. [LINK](http://www.history.com/shows/roanoke-search-for-the-lost-colony/videos/roanoke-search-for-the-lost-colony) They seemed to make a good case for the first stone being authentic and all additional stones being forged. There was textual differences and workmanship differences clearly visible under magnification, even to the layman, between the first stone and all the other stones. The first stone was also provided by an unknown man who never has been identified but was clearly not the same as the man who “found” all the subsequent stones. The show left me satisfied that the first stone at least warrants further research. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/8 "2015-11-30T19:42:29Z")
> [@Pabitel](#): > > This was a History Channel documentary that I saw as well. > > [LINK](http://www.history.com/shows/roanoke-search-for-the-lost-colony/videos/roanoke-search-for-the-lost-colony) > > They seemed to make a good case for the first stone being authentic and all additional stones being forged. There was textual differences and workmanship differences clearly visible under magnification, even to the layman, between the first stone and all the other stones. The first stone was also provided by an unknown man who never has been identified but was clearly not the same as the man who “found” all the subsequent stones. The show left me satisfied that the first stone at least warrants further research. The wiki says the man was identified by name and wanted to put it on paid display. Also someone had been shopping a found stone around for a few months before Hammond came forward with his. Here is the debunking story from 1941. [http://www.angelfire.com/ego/iammagi/dare\_writ\_on\_rocke.htm](http://www.angelfire.com/ego/iammagi/dare_writ_on_rocke.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/9 "2015-11-30T23:18:44Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Isn’t it generally accepted that the Roanoke colonists simply joined with some Native Americans nearby? Wasn’t there some scribbled sign stating that, a similarly named tribe, and offspring that suspiciously looked like half Native American and half European that later colonists found? Certainly there is reasonable speculation about this. I don’t think there is solid evidence. Personally, I think the colony died. The Jamestown colony, only a generation later, damn near starved to death, man, woman, and child. I see no reason that the Roanoke colony didn’t have that happen, and due to the late relief, the last survivors weren’t saved as happened in Jamestown. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/10 "2015-11-30T23:54:18Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Certainly there is reasonable speculation about this. I don’t think there is solid evidence. > > Personally, I think the colony died. The Jamestown colony, only a generation later, damn near starved to death, man, woman, and child. I see no reason that the Roanoke colony didn’t have that happen, and due to the late relief, the last survivors weren’t saved as happened in Jamestown. But, then, why carve the name of the tribe? I’d suspect that a lot of them died, sure, but I think at least some of them sought help from the tribe. Whether that worked out for them, I don’t know, but I remember an article that suggested there were some European traits found in that tribe later on, like blue eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/11 "2015-11-30T23:58:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But, then, why carve the name of the tribe? I’d suspect that a lot of them died, sure, but I think at least some of them sought help from the tribe. Whether that worked out for them, I don’t know, but I remember an article that suggested there were some European traits found in that tribe later on, like blue eyes. As I said, there’s reasonable speculation about this. Do we have DNA evidence that this happened? Not that I know of. Do we have archeological evidence that this happened? Not that I know of. It’s speculation. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/12 "2015-12-01T00:17:09Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Certainly there is reasonable speculation about this. I don’t think there is solid evidence. > > Personally, I think the colony died. The Jamestown colony, only a generation later, damn near starved to death, man, woman, and child. I see no reason that the Roanoke colony didn’t have that happen, and due to the late relief, the last survivors weren’t saved as happened in Jamestown. I can believe that most of them died but there is still some evidence that the survivors simply joined the Indians and started produced children as part of their adopted tribe. As noted, there were several cases of later colonists that encountered Indians with obvious white features and some pre-existing knowledge of English. There were even some that claimed they were the descendants of people that left the Roanoke Colony. That wasn’t unusual at all during that time. One of the biggest threats to the management of all such colonies was people simply giving up on it and going where they could live in better conditions with adequate food. Who could blame them? One thing I have come to understand in just the last few years is that American history books are horribly distorted on this subject in particular. Most people think of the Plymouth Colony when are asked about early European immigration to the New World but that isn’t even close to being true. Jamestown was the 1st _permanent English colony_ in the New World and the failed Roanoke Colony was even earlier than that but you have to be really careful with your qualifiers if you want to be accurate and the relative importance of some of them is dubious. Europeans (Spanish mainly) already inhabited or explored large parts of the New World including the East Coast well before the English attempted to set up their own colonies. San Augustine, Florida was founded in 1565 and is still there. One of the biggest threats to the Jamestown Colony was not just the local natives but raids by Spanish explorers that had been moving up and down the East Coast for decades already. The Pilgrims formed the Plymouth Colony rather late in 1620 but it is greatly overemphasized for some reason. The Roanoke Colony is interesting but not unique in the least. There were a bunch of failed early colonies even if you limit it just to English ones. The only reason that they could be attempted at all was because the Spanish explorers had already introduced diseases that wiped out possibly more than 90% of the native populations because they had little immunity to them. That freed up vast tracks of land and even whole villages that were in “move in condition”. One famous example is that the Pilgrims met Squanto shortly after they landed and he helped teach them how to survive. He also magically knew English. That was because he had already been to Europe and come back as a Spanish slave. Most of the other people in his tribe died from disease while he was away on his complimentary European vacation. I think this subject is fascinating even at the detailed level like the Roanoke Colony but it is even more interesting when you throw out the traditional textbook narrative and look at the bigger picture of what was really going on from all sides especially the early non-British colonization that had a vastly bigger impact than the narrative typically depicted in American history textbooks. ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dare-stones-lost-colony-of-roanoke/738980/13 "2015-12-03T11:41:57Z")
there had to be at least one inter-mixling :eek: of the “blood” between the Natives and the Englanders-they could all be Puritans :p;)