# The Dark Knight Rises: Is Christopher Nolan taking a shot at the Occupy protestors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 20, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789 "2011-12-20T00:30:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/21 "2011-12-20T04:38:57Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > That sucks. Not seeing the movie now. > So did they “kill” a bunch of real players? > **[Cameo appearance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameo_appearance)** > > A cameo appearance, also called a cameo role and often shortened to just cameo (/ˈkæmioʊ/), is a brief guest appearance of a well-known person or character in a work of the performing arts. These roles are generally small, many of them non-speaking ones, and are commonly either appearances in a work in which they hold some special significance (such as actors from an original movie appearing in its remake) or renowned people making uncredited appearances. Short appearances by celebrities, film ... ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/22 "2011-12-20T04:41:50Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Torture gave us false leads to justify the war in Iraq Link? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/23 "2011-12-20T04:47:21Z")
The [ending of The Dark Knight](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G1TgseTPH0) pretty much brings it home. George Bush, I mean Batman, knows he will be condemned and hunted, but he is willing to accept being villified as the price he must pay in order to save America, I mean Gotham. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/24 "2011-12-20T04:56:14Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > …even Batman wants the privacy invasion invention destroyed… Yes of course a film with a conservative perspective will tell us that the invasion of privacy will end just as soon as the terrorist threat is defeated. (Of course, in the movie that is a time certain. In real life, unfortunately, the threat goes on and on…) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/25 "2011-12-20T05:23:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Link? [http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0208-13.htm](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0208-13.htm) > [@](#): > > A few months after September 11th, the U.S. gained custody of its first high-ranking Al Qaeda figure, Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi. He had run bin Laden’s terrorist training camp in Khalden, Afghanistan, and was detained in Pakistan. Zacarias Moussaoui, who was already in U.S. custody, and Richard Reid, the Shoe Bomber, had both spent time at the Khalden camp. At the F.B.I.’s field office in New York, Jack Cloonan, an officer who had worked for the agency since 1972, struggled to maintain control of the legal process in Afghanistan. C.I.A. and F.B.I. agents were vying to take possession of Libi. Cloonan, who worked with Dan Coleman on anti-terrorism cases for many years, said he felt that “neither the Moussaoui case nor the Reid case was a slam dunk.” He became intent on securing Libi’s testimony as a witness against them. He advised his F.B.I. colleagues in Afghanistan to question Libi respectfully, “and handle this like it was being done right here, in my office in New York.” He recalled, “I remember talking on a secure line to them. I told them, ‘Do yourself a favor, read the guy his rights. It may be old-fashioned, but this will come out if we don’t. It may take ten years, but it will hurt you, and the bureau’s reputation, if you don’t. Have it stand as a shining example of what we feel is right.’” > > Cloonan’s F.B.I. colleagues advised Libi of his rights and took turns with C.I.A. agents in questioning him. After a few days, F.B.I. officials felt that they were developing a good rapport with him. The C.I.A. agents, however, felt that he was lying to them, and needed tougher interrogation. > > To Cloonan’s dismay, the C.I.A. reportedly rendered Libi to Egypt. He was seen boarding a plane in Afghanistan, restrained by handcuffs and ankle cuffs, his mouth covered by duct tape. Cloonan, who retired from the F.B.I. in 2002, said, “At least we got information in ways that wouldn’t shock the conscience of the court. And no one will have to seek revenge for what I did.” He added, “We need to show the world that we can lead, and not just by military might.” > > After Libi was taken to Egypt, the F.B.I. lost track of him. Yet he evidently played a crucial background role in Secretary of State Colin Powell’s momentous address to the United Nations Security Council in February, 2003, which argued the case for a preëmptive war against Iraq. In his speech, Powell did not refer to Libi by name, but he announced to the world that “a senior terrorist operative” who “was responsible for one of Al Qaeda’s training camps in Afghanistan” had told U.S. authorities that Saddam Hussein had offered to train two Al Qaeda operatives in the use of “chemical or biological weapons.” > > Last summer, Newsweek reported that Libi, who was eventually transferred from Egypt to Guantánamo Bay, was the source of the incendiary charge cited by Powell, and that he had recanted. By then, the first anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq had passed and the 9/11 Commission had declared that there was no known evidence of a working relationship between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Dan Coleman was disgusted when he heard about Libi’s false confession. “It was ridiculous for interrogators to think Libi would have known anything about Iraq,” he said. “I could have told them that. He ran a training camp. He wouldn’t have had anything to do with Iraq. Administration officials were always pushing us to come up with links, but there weren’t any. The reason they got bad information is that they beat it out of him. You never get good information from someone that way.” Originally from _The New Yorker’s_ Outsourcing Torture. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/26 "2011-12-20T05:27:51Z")
And here I just thought it was a lackluster trailer with an unconvincing performance by Hathaway. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/27 "2011-12-20T05:29:23Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > The [ending of The Dark Knight](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G1TgseTPH0) pretty much brings it home. George Bush, I mean Batman, knows he will be condemned and hunted, but he is willing to accept being villified as the price he must pay in order to save America, I mean Gotham. I think Dubya is not worried at all. IMHO the movie is ambivalent and more critical in reality of the controversial tools used by Batman. And in the end we understand why a price has to be paid for using those underhanded tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/28 "2011-12-20T05:50:42Z")
You have to remember that Nolan is not American, and his approach to American political thought - and America in general - is that of an outside observer. His Batman movies in particular are his attempt to understand the United States. Like other foreign directors working in Hollywood (Milos Forman comes to mind), this outsider status allows him to show the various themes and undercurrents prevalent in American society without committing to any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/29 "2011-12-20T12:24:09Z")
I don’t know where you’re getting your information from **Spoke,** but no director is making changes to his script when he’s already 75% - 85% of the way through principal photography – which was how far along Nolan was with the _The Dark Knight Rises_ when the OWS movement began their fomentation. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/30 "2011-12-20T13:43:58Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > [Cameo appearance - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameo_appearance) I understand what a cameo appearance is. I didn’t know that “Ward” was an actual player. I was wondering if the other football players who appear in the trailer and who die in the trailer were actual players as well. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/31 "2011-12-20T13:50:15Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I understand what a cameo appearance is. I didn’t know that “Ward” was an actual player. I was wondering if the other football players who appear in the trailer and who die in the trailer were actual players as well. I knew you knew, but I don’t know about any of the other players. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/32 "2011-12-20T14:58:08Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > It could be that the advertising wasn’t under Nolan’s control, and someone else cut together a commercial or two to look like the film is taking a shot at the Occupy protesters. Final cut privilege for directors isn’t that common in Hollywood, and I don’t even know if it typically extends to publicity. It’s my (limited) understanding that the director generally has little if anything to do with putting together the trailer, it’s handled by the marketing folks. There have certainly been plenty of bad/misleading trailers over the years, and I assume the directors weren’t involved. I also remember reading an interview with Cameron Crowe where he said it bothered him that music was used in the trailer for IIRC _Jerry Maguire_ that didn’t actually appear in the movie, so he presumably didn’t have final say over that trailer. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/33 "2011-12-20T15:15:10Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I understand what a cameo appearance is. I didn’t know that “Ward” was an actual player. I was wondering if the other football players who appear in the trailer and who die in the trailer were actual players as well. Yes. The scene was filmed at Pittsburgh’s Heinz Field and used members of the Pittsburgh Steelers (for whom Hines Ward plays) and some other team. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/34 "2011-12-20T15:32:13Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > I don’t know where you’re getting your information from **Spoke,** but no director is making changes to his script when he’s already 75% - 85% of the way through principal photography – which was how far along Nolan was with the _The Dark Knight Rises_ when the OWS movement began their fomentation. Are you kidding? Directors tinker with scripts all through shooting. In fact I was watching an interview with an actor the other day (Matt Damon, maybe?) where he was talking about a movie he filmed where they were basically rewriting the movie as they went. And filming lasted May through December. The Occupy protests started about midway through filming. But whether or not Nolan is specifically taking shots at the Occupy movement, I think the trailer implies a conservative mindset. We shall see, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/35 "2011-12-20T15:51:58Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You have to remember that Nolan is not American, and his approach to American political thought - and America in general - is that of an outside observer. His Batman movies in particular are his attempt to understand the United States. Like other foreign directors working in Hollywood (Milos Forman comes to mind), this outsider status allows him to show the various themes and undercurrents prevalent in American society without committing to any of them. This. _Dark Knight_, to me, explored a lot of issues around the neo-con agenda in the US, but was neither an rejection nor embrace of those ideas. It’s telling, I think, both sides see it so very differently. Reminds me of the conversation around _Dogma_, where Catholics and atheists had extremely different views of the film’s message. From where I sit, that is a sure sign that a director isn’t coming in with an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/36 "2011-12-20T15:54:58Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > From where I sit, that is a sure sign that a director isn’t coming in with an agenda. Or maybe it’s a sure sign people can go into denial about a political message they don’t like in a film they love. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/37 "2011-12-20T16:26:07Z")
Dark Knight had (liberal US) Senator Leahy talking shit to the Joker, so it can’t have been _that_ conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/38 "2011-12-20T20:21:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You have to remember that Nolan is not American, and his approach to American political thought - and America in general - is that of an outside observer. His Batman movies in particular are his attempt to understand the United States. Like other foreign directors working in Hollywood (Milos Forman comes to mind), this outsider status allows him to show the various themes and undercurrents prevalent in American society without committing to any of them. Well, he’s half American - his mother was an American flight attendant, and he split his childhood between London and Chicago. Still, you bring up a good point. The whole “bat-smart phone” thing seems to work better as a comment on the UK’s [“surveillance society”](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6108496.stm) than anything in the Patriot Act. I’m not sure how politicized the surveillance camera debate in in the UK, or how it breaks down ideologically, though. In the US, privacy tends to be more of a left-wing concern, but I can see how that would not necessarily be true in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/39 "2011-12-20T20:38:52Z")
Just remember, Superman was a walking illegal wiretap. Vigilante superheroes generally bring up issues that seem to tend to fall onto the conservative view of justice. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789/40 "2011-12-20T21:05:14Z")
This is what Batman says when he crashes a dinner party in Year One, long before any Occupy protests. “Ladies. Gentlemen. You have eaten well. You’ve eaten Gotham’s wealth. Its spirit. Your feast is nearly over. From this moment on – none of you are safe.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-rises-is-christopher-nolan-taking-a-shot-at-the-occupy-protestors/606789.md?page=3)