# The Dark Knight series finally dimmed the shine off Batman for me **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 3, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887 "2013-09-03T14:29:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/61 "2013-09-08T16:11:08Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > If the film makers had the confidence to put him in black BDUs, bullet-proof vest, a black cowl like a bandana with eye-holes, and realistic high-tech gadgets, he could be a smarter, more tech-savvy version of the Punisher. Replace the silly cape with a black glider-chute, keep the cars and planes believable, I think the results would fit the original character’s intent better than the plastiky get-up. That’s what Begins-Dark Knight-Rises did. The only concession to “Batman” in the new suit is the ears. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/62 "2013-09-08T20:24:16Z")
It had a shine? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/63 "2013-09-09T05:15:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [I have an antidote for that.](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJsooxL-rM) I raise you [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAFP0IoMfsA). I still have no idea how that got past the censors. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/64 "2013-09-09T13:12:43Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That’s what Begins-Dark Knight-Rises did. The only concession to “Batman” in the new suit is the ears. If you’re saying that the get-up and vehicles in Dark Knight Rises approximate the descriptions in my post above, you’re mistaken. In DKR, Batman has some kind of rigid helmet-like headgear, which I guess would protect him from blows to the head, but it doesn’t resemble the “Black Bandana” I suggested. He’s also wearing some kind of tactical outfit with a rubbery-looking texture, though not well armored (a woman with a knife can breach it), that outfit is not comparable to the BDUs and body armor, ie., bullet-proof vest, I offered. His pseudo-cape, that forms a bat-wing shaped and undersized glider of sorts is not the parachute style glider I meant. more like this in black: > **[parachute - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=parachute&client=firefox-a&hs=H2h&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=vcctUqa1BsPu2gWp9IHoBQ&ved=0CF4QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=450#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=6fbxCIcjStTUCM%3A%3BcBFlxbwrxTptxM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcpsworld.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F05%252FCPS-OR1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcpsworld.com%252Fproducts%252Fparachutes%252Foperational-reserve-or-series%252F%3B1024%3B830)** Lastly, his hovering Batplane, (so advanced it has no autopilot?) and over-sized tumbly Bat-cycle are over tho top and should be scaled down to resemble existing technology, if for no other reason that to make the stories grittier and less Sci-Fi. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/65 "2013-09-09T13:39:07Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > It seems to me that people are disappointed in Batman, because Bane told them exactly what they wanted to hear. “It’s not your fault that you’re poor! Those [del]royalist[/del], um, [del]bourgeois[/del], um, [del]Jewish[/del], um, 1%er bankers are conspiring against you!” > > Wayne Enterprises is an autonomous collective of people, working communally to create things. Mansions. Skyscrapers. Cool Cars. You may not approve of what they are building, but they are building something. > > What does Bane create? Nothing. He envies, and he resents. What other people have, he takes. What he cannot take, he destroys. For all his lofty rhetoric, he is simply a parasite, desperately trying to convince his host that it owes him a free ride. > > Ghandhi once said, " ‘An eye for an eye’ makes the whole world blind." > Well, “Soak the rich” makes the whole world poor. I hesitate to get into all of this, but it was indeed the rich who did a lot of stuff to us not too long ago: the banks, with their mortgages and then getting bailed out, the auto companies, and then the Wall Street fiasco after fiasco where they literally lived high on the hog on our money. Now you can say whatever you want about that, but when you reflect it in fiction, as was done in Batman, then you cant help but feel resentment against the so-called “job creators”. That being said, Bane was a complete disappointment, too, because he promised so much and ended up being nothing more than a terrorist. Rather like real life, too. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/66 "2013-09-09T13:41:37Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > If you’re saying that the get-up and vehicles in Dark Knight Rises approximate the descriptions in my post above, you’re mistaken. In DKR, Batman has some kind of rigid helmet-like headgear, which I guess would protect him from blows to the head, but it doesn’t resemble the “Black Bandana” I suggested. He’s also wearing some kind of tactical outfit with a rubbery-looking texture, though not well armored (a woman with a knife can breach it), that outfit is not comparable to the BDUs and body armor, ie., bullet-proof vest, I offered. His pseudo-cape, that forms a bat-wing shaped and undersized glider of sorts is not the parachute style glider I meant. You’re getting bogged down in the particulars while ignoring the fact that the three movies set up multiple scenes that explicitly show Batman’s tech as coming from experimental military gear and specialized climbing equipment. Just because you’re the 1 in 10,000 guy that knows this stuff isn’t EXACTLY what the military is working on makes you the worst person to complain about it. For everyone else, the Dark Knight trilogy did what you asked. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/67 "2013-09-09T13:53:42Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You’re getting bogged down in the particulars while ignoring the fact that the three movies set up multiple scenes that explicitly show Batman’s tech as coming from experimental military gear and specialized climbing equipment. > > Just because you’re the 1 in 10,000 guy that knows this stuff isn’t EXACTLY what the military is working on makes you the worst person to complain about it. For everyone else, the Dark Knight trilogy did what you asked. Batman needs to lose the silly mask and wear combat boots. He’s remained a walking Halloween joke through the last movie I saw, which was DKR. I dread the next one, I’m afraid of it harkening back to 1997’s “Batman and Robin”. Superman needs to be toned down, too. There was an image circulating the web of a Superman wearing engineer boots, jeans, a t-shirt and a bandana around his neck, struggling to lift some huge truck … that’s the Superman we need now, not the privileged offspring of some hologram that won’t leave him alone, but a super-human with blatant limitations; he can jump miles, but not fly through the Sun … he can shrug off bullets, but not an A-bomb. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/68 "2013-09-09T14:01:54Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I hesitate to get into all of this, but it was indeed the rich who did a lot of stuff to us not too long ago: the banks, with their mortgages and then getting bailed out, the auto companies, and then the Wall Street fiasco after fiasco where they literally lived high on the hog on our money. > > Now you can say whatever you want about that, but when you reflect it in fiction, as was done in Batman, then you cant help but feel resentment against the so-called “job creators”. > > That being said, Bane was a complete disappointment, too, because he promised so much and ended up being nothing more than a terrorist. > > Rather like real life, too. The rich suck … but they have great PR people, and a host of “useful idiots” who aspire to be as rich, and toady up to the principles of privilege as though enough of it will rub off to elevate them to an elite state. Life is a class struggle, no matter who’s life you observe. That the rulers exalt themselves and define themselves doesn’t change the sad reality … the ruthless and empowered play royal games at our expense. Some movies touch on that, like perhaps “Hunger Games”, but they amount to a “Punch and Judy” puppet show against the backdrop of the real corruption and elitism of our own reality. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/69 "2013-09-09T14:10:19Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > Batman needs to lose the silly mask and wear combat boots. He’s remained a walking Halloween joke through the last movie I saw, which was DKR. I dread the next one, I’m afraid of it harkening back to 1997’s “Batman and Robin”. > > Superman needs to be toned down, too. There was an image circulating the web of a Superman wearing engineer boots, jeans, a t-shirt and a bandana around his neck, struggling to lift some huge truck … that’s the Superman we need now, not the privileged offspring of some hologram that won’t leave him alone, but a super-human with blatant limitations; he can jump miles, but not fly through the Sun … he can shrug off bullets, but not an A-bomb. Out of curiosity, what did you think of THE AVENGERS, which was a massive success but presumably would’ve pushed all your least-favorite buttons? ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/70 "2013-09-09T14:24:33Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > you do know that . . . ah . . . that the batman is . . . ya know . . . ahhh fiction, right?? [Moff’s Law](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftvtropes.org%2Fpmwiki%2Fpmwiki.php%2FMain%2FMoffsLaw&ei=5NktUsC0BMz_4AP344HwDQ&usg=AFQjCNFz2q164SevAjrCZ-EjyC8Wo5m9xQ&bvm=bv.51773540,d.dmg). Read it, please. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/71 "2013-09-09T14:31:55Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I raise you [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAFP0IoMfsA). I still have no idea how that got past the censors. I [see your bet](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hZj6AC7jAO4), and [raise again.](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=exhNT2_bHs8) ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/72 "2013-09-09T14:41:17Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > No, they aren’t, because the economy isn’t a zero-sum game. There’s not a fixed amount of wealth that has to be shared. New wealth is created. > > No, he doesn’t, not even in mythical Gotham City. He’s spreading bullshit to try to con the idiots into doing his bidding. That depends on what kind of wealth we’re talking about, and in any case, it’s extracted (by capitalists _and_ the State) more than it’s created. I haven’t seen TDKR, so I can’t comment on that film specifically, but your line sounds like what the privileged and the defenders of privilege always say. “But the nobility have the Divine Right/Mandate of Heaven … slavery is Biblical … you can’t take children out of the coal mines, or have a fire exit in this garment factory, that would violate the Free Market … Living Wage?!? What are you, a Red!?” With that said, there’s also the very similar line of attack from the anti-authoritarian (or less-authoritarian/decentralized) Left: “We hate kings and queens and capitalists just as much as you do, Mr. Marx (or later, Lenin), but we don’t want The Party to end up in their position. How can we prevent this?” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/73 "2013-09-09T14:52:38Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > Some movies touch on that, like perhaps “Hunger Games”, but they amount to a “Punch and Judy” puppet show against the backdrop of the real corruption and elitism of our own reality. As it turns out, I go to big Hollywood movies to be entertained, not preached to and depressed. So this is fine with me. When I want to get the “real” story, I explore it via means beyond a $9 movie ticket. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/74 "2013-09-09T14:54:30Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > There’s definitely incentive for the rich to stay rich, but not to keep everyone else poor. In fact, there’s a DISincentive for that. If everyone else is poor, no one can afford to buy the stuff the rich person sells or produces. > > Rich people just want to have more than the average Joe—they don’t care if the average Joe is upper middle class or lower, and they certainly don’t want him poor. It would seem that way, but why does it not work out that way in the real world, unless people organize and fight back for a piece of the pie (or, ideally, the whole pie?) This is pretty relevant to Batman, actually. The US has one of the world’s most violent labor histories, and frequently members of the middle and upper classes would help out with fundraising, jail support, getting between the strikers and the cops, and so on. There were a variety of motives at work, and the one you mention above was one of them. The economy didn’t run that way when left to its own devices, _contra_ the Randroids and dishonest neoliberals. In Bruce Wayne’s case, he uses his privilege to fight the criminals who prey upon the masses. Much crime seems to stem from greed, after all. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/75 "2013-09-09T15:34:00Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > The rich suck … but they have great PR people, and a host of “useful idiots” who aspire to be as rich, and toady up to the principles of privilege as though enough of it will rub off to elevate them to an elite state. Life is a class struggle, no matter who’s life you observe. That the rulers exalt themselves and define themselves doesn’t change the sad reality … the ruthless and empowered play royal games at our expense. > > Some movies touch on that, like perhaps “Hunger Games”, but they amount to a “Punch and Judy” puppet show against the backdrop of the real corruption and elitism of our own reality. :rolleyes: You sound like a few social sciences college professors I’ve had the misfortune to have. What a load. Yeah, all of life is a “class struggle”…if you’re obsessed with that kind of silly shit. That’s why no poor person has ever gotten rich on their own merits, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/76 "2013-09-09T15:37:32Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > That depends on what kind of wealth we’re talking about, and in any case, it’s extracted (by capitalists _and_ the State) more than it’s created. Huh…so Apple and Microsoft are extracting software? Who’dathunk it? > [@](#): > > I haven’t seen TDKR, so I can’t comment on that film specifically, but your line sounds like what the privileged and the defenders of privilege always say. " ROFL! Yeah, I’m so fucking privileged…my family rarely rose above the poverty line when I was a kid and our current household income is squarely middle class. What I am, though, is old enough to know better than to assume that someone else has to do worse so I can do better. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/77 "2013-09-09T15:37:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Out of curiosity, what did you think of THE AVENGERS, which was a massive success but presumably would’ve pushed all your least-favorite buttons? Your presumptions are inaccurate, but more importantly, since I didn’t work on that film, nor have I invested in it, it’s success and popularity are irrelevant to me … I don’t validate my opinions by associating them with the tastes of the masses. Popular music is mostly horrible, popular food, bland, and why I would concern myself with whether a movie I found to be entertaining was popular with the general public I can’t imagine. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/78 "2013-09-09T15:42:20Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > It would seem that way, but why does it not work out that way in the real world, unless people organize and fight back for a piece of the pie (or, ideally, the whole pie?) It does work that way in governments with a good balance between a free economy and a safety net for the populace. Yes, people had to organize and fight back, but that was hardly a modern economy. Just the same as today in countries where the workers are paid next to nothing: they only get away with that because their goods are being paid for by the middle class in countries with a better balance of economic freedom and protection of the people. If they had to sell all their goods in their own nation, they could never get away with paying nothing for workers to assemble Nikes in some sweat shop and then charging $100 for them. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/79 "2013-09-09T15:49:39Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > :rolleyes: > > You sound like a few social sciences college professors I’ve had the misfortune to have. What a load. Yeah, all of life is a “class struggle”…if you’re obsessed with that kind of silly shit. That’s why no poor person has ever gotten rich on their own merits, right? :rolleyes: Is that a rhetorical question? Because, you know, sometimes people ask rhetorical questions just to be insulting. I’ll give you an answer, since you weren’t paying attention in Social Sciences class … the source of wealth is largely irrelevant; I don’t care if you worked your way up from the mail room or inherited billions from Daddy. What is important is the results. Did the wealth generate jobs at a factory? Good. Did it bribe foreign bureaucrats to overlook toxic poisoning of the environment? Bad. Did it get donated to a corrupt political leader who would grant you further privilege to amass an even greater fortune by skirting laws designed to protect investors? Bad. It’s not the money, it’s the owners of the money. Who’d wielding it and what is the outcome … that’s the rub. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887/80 "2013-09-09T15:54:46Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > Your presumptions are inaccurate, but more importantly, since I didn’t work on that film, nor have I invested in it, it’s success and popularity are irrelevant to me … I don’t validate my opinions by associating them with the tastes of the masses. Popular music is mostly horrible, popular food, bland, and why I would concern myself with whether a movie I found to be entertaining was popular with the general public I can’t imagine. I’m not trying to draw some line between how popular it was and whether you found it entertaining. I merely want to ask whether Captain America’s look and Thor’s look in that film bugged you even more than what you were saying about Batman’s costume and Superman’s costume – in a movie which, yes, I happen to note was a popular success, but I never figured _ **that** _ was relevant to whether it pushed your least-favorite buttons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-knight-series-finally-dimmed-the-shine-off-batman-for-me/667887.md?page=5)