# The dark side of Canadian socialized medicine - Infectious lesbians **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 28, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375 "2009-01-28T12:41:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/41 "2009-01-29T17:40:15Z")
The doctor treats female patients, but not gay female patients, despite there not being any medical difference between the two. She should have her license pulled. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/42 "2009-01-29T17:51:45Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Sounds like we American insureds have \*less \*choice than you do sometimes! American here: the health plan I chose – my employer offers our choice of four, each with different amounts deducted from your paycheck – allows me to go to any doctor anywhere without a referral. I pay slightly less if that doctor is on their preferred list, but they still pay for most of non-preferred docs, too. It’s a good deal for anyone with multiple medical issues or who likes to get second opinions, and I’m very glad I have it. Can anyone tell me if it’s a common misconception/prejudice in Egypt or thereabouts to believe lesbians get more infections than straight women? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/43 "2009-01-29T17:59:31Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The doctor treats female patients, but not gay female patients, despite there not being any medical difference between the two. She should have her license pulled. Well, depends on who you believe, I guess. From your own cite, her boss says she never refused to treat the patient: > [@](#): > > The director of a Winnipeg clinic defended a family physician accused of discrimination against a lesbian couple yesterday, saying the doctor did not refuse to treat the women. > > Dr. Terry Gwozdecki, medical director of Lakewood Medic-al Centre, e-mailed a statement to the Winnipeg Free Press yesterday, saying Dr. Kamelia Elias “at no time refused to accept these women into her practice.” I think it’s entirely possible that the doctor’s words were misinterpreted: > [@](#): > > Andrea Markowsk…maintains Dr. Elias was clearly uncomfortable with same-sex relationships during their meeting. Andrea Markowski > > said she asked Dr. Elias if she had a problem treating th couple and that her answer was clear-- Dr. Elias said yes, and explained homosexuality violates her religious beliefs. > > “We took that to mean that she wouldn’t care for us because it conflicted with her religion,” Andrea Markowski said. “She clearly was shocked by our relationship, unable to recover.” So it’s entirely possible that Andrea _inferred_, from the doctor’s statement of her religious beliefs upon direct questioning (and, yes, the erroneous “lots of infections” thing) that she was turning them away as patients when that wasn’t actually the case. Even in her own quote, Andrea says she “took that to mean”, not “the doctor said…” Could be sloppy journalism, could be an overreacting patient, could be an asshole doc. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/44 "2009-01-29T19:02:02Z")
Most likely sloppy journalism, and publicity seekings persons. I serioulsy doubt the clinci would stand by its doctor if they did not have evidence (and a lot of evidence) for her side. ---
**Author:** ![flex727](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/45 "2009-01-29T19:07:03Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Similarly, I get my routine eye exam from my optometrist. No need to send me to an opthamologist unless he feels that it’s warranted. It would be a waste of the opthamologist’s time and a waste of money. I used to go to an opthamologist regularly for simple refraction because “if an optometrist is good, an opthamologist must be better (and a real doctor), eh?” :smack: Stupid! Not only was he bad at prescribing, he missed the diagnosis of a severe eye disease I have for years. I kept complaining of vision problems and his response was to keep upping my myopia prescription. When the prescription got to -5, I couldn’t see far away nor up close. My new optometrist is fantastic and my new opthamologist is a brilliant surgeon who has enabled me to see again. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/46 "2009-01-29T19:17:36Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So it’s entirely possible that Andrea _inferred_, from the doctor’s statement of her religious beliefs upon direct questioning (and, yes, the erroneous “lots of infections” thing) that she was turning them away as patients when that wasn’t actually the case. True, but even if they don’t have a case, legally, you really think they’d want to go to a doc who sees them as diseased and subhuman? (Has there ever been a thread about women’s health or maintenance that _didn’t_ involve car metaphors?) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/47 "2009-01-29T19:52:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > True, but even if they don’t have a case, legally, you really think they’d want to go to a doc who sees them as diseased and subhuman? No, I don’t, but not wanting to go to a doc is a far different cry from being refused medical care. ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/48 "2009-01-29T20:08:13Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > I’m aware of this, but what surprised me is that they’ve _never_ performed one and are practicing here. Now I can understand how the College of Physicians will licence foreign practitioners based on foreign credentials and occasionally extra training locally. It also makes sense for them to let an opthamologist practice without proving he/she can do a pelvic exam. But the article suggests there are family physicians practicing without knowing how to do a basic procedure that women are supposed to have done during their yearly physical. That’s nuts to me. It’s one thing not to have had any female patients previously, but if they also don’t have _any_ experience or knowledge about conditions that affect women, how the hell are they supposed to perform their duties? It’s a little badly worded, but the way it parsed to me is that some internationally-trained doctors applying for credential here hadn’t done a pelvic exam prior to coming to Canada. AFAIK, they would learn to perform one as part of a standard family medicine residency program, though, and would be expected to perform them on their own patients once they have completed their studies. I’ll have to check that with someone I know who’s been working in family practice and residency programs here in Ontario, but I can definitely confirm that I’ve had residents do my exam at least twice in my life (one of my family docs worked in a teaching clinic). I’m not sure that any doctor in Canada would be permitted to opt out of providing a patient a routine medical procedure on the grounds that it’s against their faith/culture/ethics, especially when there is no controversy around it like abortion or assisted suicide. I can’t say that with absolute certainty, unfortunately, since it’s been several years since I’ve had to stay current on medical ethics and policy except for the sake of my own curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/49 "2009-01-30T00:45:43Z")
Just to clarify a little here: In the US there is really no such thing as a GP. To get licensed you usually need at least three years of training in a specialty. The closest would be a family practitioner. Most insurance plans allow us to choose a primary practitioner from among Family Practitioners, Internists (Adult Doctors), Pediatricians, or Ob/Gyn’s. A woman who chooses an OB/Gyn as her primary doctor must be aware that the doctor has limited training in more complex diseases. As a female Internist, many of my patients come to me because I am a female. They want a doctor who knows them to do their entire exam. I would estimate that I do primary gynecologic care on about half of my patients. I do routine examinations, pap smears, treat gynecologic infections, prescribe birth control pills and shots, and refer when necessary ie for pregnancy or surgery. Even when I have a patient who sees an Ob/Gyn regularly for routine care I often find that they call me for problems such as irregular bleeding or infections because when they call the OB/Gyn they can’t get in for weeks and they can see me much sooner. All my physicals are scheduled for an hour so I have time to do a pap smear if needed. If I’m just doing a pap smear I schedule 30 minutes which patients tell me they appreciate. I can’t be too bad at the exams because I have three generations of some famililies seeing me. Frankly, if you are going in for a routine physical and don’t have any problems, isn’t it a lot easier if you see one doctor, go over all your problems, get undressed once and get examined head to toe than have to take two days off work and have to wait in two separate offices and get undressed twice so that one doctor can check your female parts and the other can check everything else? In any case, just because some people here say they don’t go to their primary doctor for a pap/pelvic here in the US doesn’t mean that we aren’t trained to do it and that it doesn’t happen. _Caveat: I have heard of some Internists-all male-who won’t do pelvic exams because they don’t like to and they don’t pay any extra. For me, it’s part of comprehensive care._ ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/50 "2009-01-30T01:16:59Z")
I guess I always figured my primary care doctor would be trained and able to do a pelvic exam if, say, I showed up with abdominal pain and it turned out the pelvic area needed to be examined. But as far as people getting their annual pelvic from someone other than an OB/GYN, that was absolutely news to me in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/51 "2009-01-30T04:58:00Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > _Caveat: I have heard of some Internists-all male-who won’t do pelvic exams because they don’t like to and they don’t pay any extra. For me, it’s part of comprehensive care._ Or, the patient kicks like a mule and damn near knocks the doctor’s glasses off her face. But I’d never do that to anyone named Dr psychobunny 😃 _Sorry, Dr. C!_ ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375/52 "2009-01-30T13:05:02Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > I guess I always figured my primary care doctor would be trained and able to do a pelvic exam if, say, I showed up with abdominal pain and it turned out the pelvic area needed to be examined. But as far as people getting their annual pelvic from someone other than an OB/Gyn, that was absolutely news to me in this thread. I went to an OB/Gyn for a while as my primary. After I was done with kids and when most of my issues were not related to my female parts - he suggested I go with a GP or an Internist (I have an Internist). I only get one annual physical a year - so my Internist does it. (Get as in insurance pays for and I make time for). It was when my Dad, a relatively thin man who exercises, got diabetes that my Gyn suggested I make the switch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dark-side-of-canadian-socialized-medicine-infectious-lesbians/483375.md?page=2)