# The darker side of the bridge collapse **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 29, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569 "2024-03-29T17:01:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2024, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/21 "2024-03-30T18:49:22Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I think you are underestimating the power of the giant container ship. Not really. A properly placed charge removes a critical structure and the mass of the structure brings everything down. That’s the beauty of it. We have all probably seen many videos of building demolition and that involves bring down a building with lots of redundancy. Hence the sequence of charges going off. A bridge often has several columns or beams each of which can start a cascading failure. Recall the bridge 10 years ago that was brought down when a truck clipped a single overhead beam. Engineering such a demolition is not that hard. Shaped charges are used by professionals because they use a minimum of explosives and secondary damage is minimized. Blowing up a bridge could be done with a big dumb sachel charge. A shaped charge is really not needed. But basic shaped charges are not all that hard to design. I’ve watched a guy on YouTube build his own using wine glasses for the shape and legal binary explosives for the charge. I am assuming some terrorist groups have military connections anyway. How long do you think it would take for a small team to rapidly approach a bridge support on a dark rainy night? Use an inflatable for the small radar signature. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/22 "2024-03-30T18:56:23Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > We have all probably seen many videos of building demolition and that involves bring down a building with lots of redundancy Those building take weeks of prep cutting through all but the bare minimum of support necessary to keep them upright until the final charges are detonated. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/23 "2024-03-30T19:32:55Z")
I remember Maxim magazine somehow had an entire article around the same time (probably inspired by that) about the easy ways terrorists could do terror attacks with very low skills. Setting fire to an oil tanker in a critical harbor was one such one. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/24 "2024-03-30T19:48:07Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > How long do you think it would take for a small team to rapidly approach a bridge support on a dark rainy night? Use an inflatable for the small radar signature. The department of public works around here can’t repaint a crosswalk without shutting down the whole intersection overnight and bringing in so much equipment and lighting that the place is lit up like the 4th of July, so you tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/25 "2024-03-30T20:26:32Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > How long do you think it would take for a small team to rapidly approach a bridge support on a dark rainy night? Use an inflatable for the small radar signature. How is this terrorist squad going to get up from their raft to the bridge spans several dozen feet up to the supports that might conceivably be thin enough for their explosive to have an impact? Note we aren’t talking about seal team six, we are talking a bout a bunch of guys chosen more for the fervor of their belief in the cause, and access to US visas, then their skills. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/26 "2024-03-30T21:26:13Z")
Suppose that the ship had instead been a LNG carrier. Do they put any extra consideration into what things are in the path of such ships when locating a LNG terminal? What sort of destruction might happen if a LNG carrier had hit this bridge and ruptured and ignited? A huge explosion with wide destructive power? Or a more localized, mostly fire incident? I know it can be on a scale depending on many things. But what is worst case scenario with a LNG carrier rupture and ignition? Keep in mind there are multiple pressure vessels. One ignites/explodes. The next one starts heating up, till BOOM? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/27 "2024-03-30T21:29:53Z")
Never mind the obvious LNG scenario, as I think you are correct there. But how about a barge full of chemical fertilizer such as was stored and neglected at that port in Beirut? That is a much more mundane material but still had a big, destructive boom. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/28 "2024-03-31T02:30:15Z")
And they use hundreds of charges ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/29 "2024-03-31T03:42:54Z")
Never mind. More complex than I thought. But not too many charges. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/30 "2024-03-31T03:43:48Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > The terrorists are probably observing our crumbling infrastructure and lack of congressional action about it and have decided to focus their energy elsewhere. … like donating to Republicans. This would give them a bigger bang for their bucks. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/31 "2024-03-31T04:38:34Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Yeah that’s the thing right “a shaped charge or two on the right beam” is a lot easier said than done. Even making an effective shaped charge is probably beyond the skill level of your average internet-radicalised jihadist (or nazi or whatever). The chance of them making several of them, and sucessfully planting them where they need to go to destroy a bridge without getting caught is pretty low Exactly. Folks, the Boston bombers had to resort to scavenging ‘’‘explosives’‘’ from fire works and that time some knucklehead tried to take down the Brooklyn Bridge with a fucking an acetylene torch! (If you’ve seen that bridge and know what even a couple of idiots can carry in terms of acetylene gas bottles you know that this wasn’t going to be difficult, it was going to be impossible.) Cross section of Golden Gate Bridge suspension cable. > **[https://external-preview.redd.it/4ADZOYsF68zN-ixJOb7VokLs6DXKHUK7k\_0F4TvlP74.jpg...](https://external-preview.redd.it/4ADZOYsF68zN-ixJOb7VokLs6DXKHUK7k_0F4TvlP74.jpg?auto=webp&s=1bef897163885e07a19365ae7d1ade04517de428)** ---
**Author:** ![ColdBrew50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@ColdBrew50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdBrew50)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/32 "2024-03-31T06:20:26Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > IMO it’s perfectly Ok to just shake your head, and change the subject to whatever work you need them to do for you. Really? I never would have thought it. Ignore ranting lunatics IRL. It’s a novel idea, and it just might catch on. > [@griffin1977](#): > > As always there is an onion article (or to be a bit more nuanced, if there isn’t an XKCD there is an onion article 😉 ) Probably true. If it’s a _The Onion_ headline, it’s likely true, or funny, or close to being true. If it’s something written by that misogynist illiterate turd Randall, it’s likely disgusting and vomit-worthy, as most things scrawled or “written” by people like that tend to be. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/33 "2024-03-31T10:04:03Z")
> [@ColdBrew50](#): > > misogynist illiterate turd Randall, This is a total hijack, so let’s try keep it short, or take it to another thread. Probably the Pit. What makes you think Randall is misogynistic? He often features female stick characters as the person correcting the male stick figures. I think he is literate as well, but that is not an argument I am going to take up. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/qoxly/i\_think\_you\_lot\_are\_gonna\_love\_todays\_xkcd/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/qoxly/i_think_you_lot_are_gonna_love_todays_xkcd/) ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/34 "2024-03-31T10:29:00Z")
I chose to take this up in the pit instead. > [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1836): > > I decided to move my criticism of @ColdBrew50 here. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/35 "2024-03-31T17:26:10Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > And they use hundreds of charges They need to because of the redundancy. But a structure with a single point of failure like a bridge only needs a single powerful charge. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/36 "2024-03-31T17:32:05Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > How is this terrorist squad going to get up from their raft to the bridge spans several dozen feet up to the supports that might conceivably be thin enough for their explosive to have an impact? Note we aren’t talking about seal team six, we are talking a bout a bunch of guys chosen more for the fervor of their belief in the cause, and access to US visas, then their skills. You’re right. I was thinking there were bridges where the steel columns come right down to near the waterline. But looking at a lot of bridge photos shows that all of them have rather tall concrete structures at the base and the steel starts much higher. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/37 "2024-03-31T23:56:55Z")
Again, if it’s so easy to take down a bridge, why is the bridge from Russia to Crimea still standing, after all these years? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/38 "2024-04-01T00:08:32Z")
It reminds me of various stories from WWII where a retreating army would try to destroy bridges behind them. Sometimes they would succeed, sometimes not but I was always amazed at how hard it seems. I thought surely they could just place a few explosives and be done with it but nope. It took some work and thought to do it right and often they simply did not have time. Certainly seemed more than a few shaped charges to manage it (and these were generally much smaller bridges than the one in Baltimore). > [@Chronos](#): > > Again, if it’s so easy to take down a bridge, why is the bridge from Russia to Crimea still standing, after all these years? I have read that Russia has very heavily guarded the bridge. Ukraine has managed some damage to the bridge but I’d think they’d have managed closing it by now. As you suggest, it is not easy. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/39 "2024-04-01T01:21:30Z")
Bridges are notoriously difficult to destroy with air-launched munitions. Or with artillery fire or even now ground-launched high precision guided missiles. It’s easy enough to damage the decking and slow traffic until road repairs can be made. Wrecking the structure is a _much_ taller order. Sappers are the successful approach to bridge destruction percentagewise, but that means getting _your_ attack team up close and personal with _their_ bridge. At least conceptually speaking, that’s a lot easier in e.g. Illinois than in e.g. Crimea. The cool thing about a bridge is that if your sappers or munitions do succeed in creating an overstress / overload situation, the bridge’s own design and mass generally guarantees a catastrophic failure cascade. You’re not going to chip out little hunks from a bridge as you might from a tunnel or fortification. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569/40 "2024-04-01T01:31:21Z")
I think some people learned everything they know on the subject from Tuco and Blondie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-darker-side-of-the-bridge-collapse/999569.md?page=3)