# The data seem to indicate peak oil already happened. Are we there yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219 "2010-07-10T15:04:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/81 "2010-08-16T17:20:30Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > …and then there’s what the people who own the property, run the processes, and design the equipment call them. Working in the oil industry in Alberta, I very seldom hear anyone use the term tar sands. Only people outside the industry, in my experience, seem to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/82 "2010-08-17T04:07:38Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Una\_Persson](#): > > > > …and then there’s what the people who own the property, run the processes, and design the equipment call them. > > Working in the oil industry in Alberta, I very seldom hear anyone use the term tar sands. Only people outside the industry, in my experience, seem to do so. Well… **Una** is kind of in the industry. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/83 "2010-08-17T04:16:02Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > [@Uzi](#): > > > > Working in the oil industry in Alberta, I very seldom hear anyone use the term tar sands. Only people outside the industry, in my experience, seem to do so. > > Well… **Una** is kind of in the industry. Anyone depending on a petrodollar (that’s all there is, bro) for food tomorrow is in the industry. Get real. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/84 "2010-08-17T05:19:24Z")
Pedants. What’s the difference between oil (from wherever) and a potato with a chicken in your pot? Help me here. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/85 "2010-08-17T05:21:01Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > > Well… **Una** is kind of in the industry. > > Anyone depending on a petrodollar (that’s all there is, bro) for food tomorrow is in the industry. Get real. So you are still not accepting ‘tar sands’? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/86 "2010-08-17T05:22:02Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Pedants. What’s the difference between oil (from wherever) and a potato with a chicken in your pot? > > Help me here. The quantity. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/87 "2010-08-17T05:31:59Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Anyone depending on a petrodollar (that’s all there is, bro) for food tomorrow is in the industry. Get real. > > So you are still not accepting ‘tar sands’? I love tar sands. I love sand in general. And I love gravity which makes dust possible. Get my drift? > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > Pedants. What’s the difference between oil (from wherever) and a potato with a chicken in your pot? > > > > Help me here. > > The quantity. Seek first the Kingdom. You have more than enough for everyone. Feed your servants well. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/88 "2010-08-17T12:16:13Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well… **Una** is kind of in the industry. Yeah, well, so am I, although on the IT side. Do a search on oil sands in Google and you come up with articles related to the industry and a few against. Do a search on tar sands and you come up with quite a few more links from the enviro-whacko crowd. Again, in my experience, most people in the industry don’t want to be associated with that crowd, and oil sands is the more accurate term. Just doing a preliminary search on a site like Suncor’s and I can’t even find any reference to tar sands, but oil sands, no problem. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/89 "2010-08-17T12:29:38Z")
The inventor of the aqualung was an inventor named Rene Gagnon-during the WWII occupation of France, gasoline was very scarce. As an alternative, people ran cars on coking gas (the gas driven off when coal is converted to carbon (coke). Gagnon’s invention was a regulator that fed high pressure coking gas into the carburator of a car. From what I read, this worked reasonably well. Given our vast stocks of coal, could we do this toady? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/90 "2010-08-18T04:21:09Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > > Well… **Una** is kind of in the industry. > > Yeah, well, so am I, although on the IT side. > > Do a search on oil sands in Google and you come up with articles related to the industry and a few against. Do a search on tar sands and you come up with quite a few more links from the enviro-whacko crowd. Again, in my experience, most people in the industry don’t want to be associated with that crowd, and oil sands is the more accurate term. Just doing a preliminary search on a site like Suncor’s and I can’t even find any reference to tar sands, but oil sands, no problem. I did not realize it was an issue. ‘Oil sands’ is more correct? Ok. I don’t think I’ll blink if someone says ‘tar sands’ though. Deal? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/91 "2010-08-18T17:28:00Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > > Well… **Una** is kind of in the industry. > > Anyone depending on a petrodollar (that’s all there is, bro) for food tomorrow is in the industry. Get real. Since 45-50% of US electrical generation comes from coal, I suppose now everyone here will call themselves “in the coal industry?” _Really?_ ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/92 "2010-08-18T17:40:42Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > > > Well… **Una** is kind of in the industry. > > Yeah, well, so am I, although on the IT side. > > Do a search on oil sands in Google and you come up with articles related to the industry and a few against. Do a search on tar sands and you come up with quite a few more links from the enviro-whacko crowd. Those technical paper links I posted upstream were not from enviro-whacko people. I could ask my librarian to send up a few hundred papers over the last few decades referencing “tar sands;” since I don’t want to pay him to do that then search elsewhere. Google is not the world; each week I run into scads of reputable published papers and books which do not appear on Google. Google is not the arbiter of consensus. I refuse to argue this any more. Call it whatever you want; both names, and others, are used. I’m not saying you’re wrong about the use of “oil sands”, far from it, you’re quite correct - I merely state that there are other accepted uses which people in the industry use and that it’s not “wrong.” I strongly suspect, but have no citations to back me up, that “oil sands” is pushed as a term to some extent because it has less of a negative connotation to the average person. FWIW I’ve worked in laboratories on tar sands products, and am currently a “consultant on call” to a Canadian company which is developing these resources. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/93 "2010-08-18T17:59:55Z")
**Uzi** without fail will resort to pedantry about minor side (non)issues to avoid serious discussion of the real topic. That’s his debating so-called style. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/94 "2010-08-18T20:14:03Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I strongly suspect, but have no citations to back me up, that “oil sands” is pushed as a term to some extent because it has less of a negative connotation to the average person. Yeah, I agree that this is probably the main reason for companies like Suncor to not use terms like ‘tar’ sands. I’m quite sure that I’ve read an article from the Alberta government regarding the usage issue, but can’t find the cite for it. I wasn’t trying to be pedantic about it, btw. Sorry if it came across that way. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/95 "2010-08-18T21:38:39Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > > [@Una\_Persson](#): > > > > I strongly suspect, but have no citations to back me up, that “oil sands” is pushed as a term to some extent because it has less of a negative connotation to the average person. > > Yeah, I agree that this is probably the main reason for companies like Suncor to not use terms like ‘tar’ sands. I’m quite sure that I’ve read an article from the Alberta government regarding the usage issue, but can’t find the cite for it. I wasn’t trying to be pedantic about it, btw. Sorry if it came across that way. See what I mean? He can say nothing relevant to the OP so he says anything. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/96 "2010-08-19T00:42:05Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > See what I mean? He can say nothing relevant to the OP so he says anything. Just sayin’. Knock it off, **adhay**. If you have a personal problem with **Uzi** or vice versa, take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/97 "2010-08-19T01:00:04Z")
Taking a chance on seeming to be even more pedantic, I haven’t responded to adhay here at all, so there isn’t any vice versa to worry over unless he says something worth responding to. I don’t make a practice of following people around from thread to thread to find things to disagree with them over. If someone says something I disagree with in one thread and something to agree with them in another, then I’ll do so based upon what they say, not who they are. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/98 "2010-08-19T02:51:35Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The inventor of the aqualung was an inventor named Rene Gagnon-during the WWII occupation of France, gasoline was very scarce. As an alternative, people ran cars on coking gas (the gas driven off when coal is converted to carbon (coke). > Gagnon’s invention was a regulator that fed high pressure coking gas into the carburator of a car. From what I read, this worked reasonably well. > Given our vast stocks of coal, could we do this toady? Introducing… the Chevy Snort. IOW, no. Maybe there are untapped uses for coking gas though. Got numbers? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/99 "2010-08-19T13:20:33Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The inventor of the aqualung was an inventor named Rene Gagnon-during the WWII occupation of France, gasoline was very scarce. As an alternative, people ran cars on coking gas (the gas driven off when coal is converted to carbon (coke). > Gagnon’s invention was a regulator that fed high pressure coking gas into the carburator of a car. From what I read, this worked reasonably well. > Given our vast stocks of coal, could we do this toady? No. And don’t call me toady. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219/100 "2010-08-19T22:55:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@adhay](#): > > > > See what I mean? He can say nothing relevant to the OP so he says anything. Just sayin’. > > Knock it off, **adhay**. If you have a personal problem with **Uzi** or vice versa, take it to the Pit. > [@Uzi](#): > > Taking a chance on seeming to be even more pedantic, I haven’t responded to adhay here at all Until now. Your pedantry is in tact. > [@](#): > > so there isn’t any vice versa to worry over unless he says something worth responding to. Don’t stay up. > [@](#): > > I don’t make a practice of following people around from thread to thread to find things to disagree with them over. If someone says something I disagree with in one thread and something to agree with them in another, then I’ll do so based upon what they say, not who they are. Who _is_ **adhay**? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-data-seem-to-indicate-peak-oil-already-happened-are-we-there-yet/546219.md?page=6)