# The Dawkins' Belief Scale: Where Do You Fall? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653 "2011-10-14T17:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/21 "2011-10-14T18:15:26Z")
> [@Fatwater\_Fewl](#): > > In this poll we’re looking at the forest, not at individual trees. Simply step out of Semantic Grove for a moment. Er, well, we _are_ looking at the types of trees that comprise the forest. But my point, **AHunter3** , is that it’s the composition of the forest I’m asking about, not the patterns in the bark on a particular tree. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/22 "2011-10-14T18:30:42Z")
> [@Fatwater\_Fewl](#): > > Not many middlemen so far. That surprises me a bit. Framing a middle position is very idiosyncratic. What does “completely impartial” actually mean? How would/should an agnostic rate themselves? Or a [Possibilian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possibilianism)(wiki link - getting a lot of coverage on TED lectures, in the New Yorker, etc.)? > [@](#): > > “Our ignorance of the cosmos is too vast to commit to atheism, and yet we know too much to commit to a particular religion. A third position, agnosticism, is often an uninteresting stance in which a person simply questions whether his traditional religious story (say, a man with a beard on a cloud) is true or not true. But with Possibilianism I’m hoping to define a new position – one that emphasizes the exploration of new, unconsidered possibilities. Possibilianism is comfortable holding multiple ideas in mind; it is not interested in committing to any particular story.” ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/23 "2011-10-14T18:37:33Z")
Hmm, never heard of 'em before, but it sounds to me like Possibilians are just atheists playing possum, so I’m gonna call 'em Possum Atheists. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/24 "2011-10-14T18:38:54Z")
Oh bloody hell…I voted a 2 when I meant 6. ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/25 "2011-10-14T18:39:57Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Oh bloody hell…I voted a 2 when I meant 6. You win! The poll was really a math test in disguise. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/26 "2011-10-14T18:54:19Z")
> [@Little\_Bird](#): > > I’m about a 6.99. I am really, really, really sure there is no god, the same way I’m really, really, really sure there is no Santa Claus. But, if we truly live in an infinite universe I do have to leave the teensy possibility that there is some sort of god-like entity out there, just like I have to leave the possibility that there is a planet where the indigenous life forms are Volkswagen Beetles. Same here. I don’t think it’s possible to be 100% certain of the non-existence of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/27 "2011-10-14T18:56:45Z")
Easy 7 ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/28 "2011-10-14T19:01:51Z")
7 here. There is no question in my mind that gods don’t exist, and am still surprised when acquaintances profess their belief in something so unsupportable. If the Abrahamic god exists then, in my mind, Zeus, Odin, Ganesha, Quetzalcoatl, Baal, and all of the hundreds of minor deities actually exist, and they don’t, so it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/29 "2011-10-14T19:07:11Z")
> [@Fatwater\_Fewl](#): > > Hmm, never heard of 'em before, but it sounds to me like Possibilians are just atheists playing possum, so I’m gonna call 'em Possum Atheists. You are welcome to call them what you want, but that is a simplistic reduction of the point. Ultimately, it is supremely arrogant of Man\* - as a species or individual men and women - to claim to have THE answer one way or another. It appears that “Possibilianism” is an attempt to acknowledge this situation - if so, I applaud the intent… \*[Epistemic Arrogance](http://kmci.org/alllifeisproblemsolving/archives/black-swan-ideas-silent-evidence-confirmation-error-epistemic-arrogance-and-future-blindness/): believing we are capable of knowing more than we actually are, individually or as a species… ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/30 "2011-10-14T19:08:14Z")
I suppose you could say that there is a small probability of fairies, orcs and santa existing, but I don’t believe in them, so 7 for me. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/31 "2011-10-14T19:30:37Z")
> [@Fatwater\_Fewl](#): > > Er, well, we _are_ looking at the types of trees that comprise the forest. But my point, **AHunter3** , is that it’s the composition of the forest I’m asking about, not the patterns in the bark on a particular tree. I wouldn’t say anything if someone else hadn’t, but to some extent I must side with **AHunter3** ; I see no satisfying method of projecting my beliefs onto the scale as written. Although I have some level of certainty in a kind of quasi-deistic Aristotelian/[Scholastic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism) god (say, a 2), in practice I’m closer to a 6. I suspect that underlying the scale is the conception of god as a personal deity deserving of, and receptive to, worship, but I don’t really know. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/32 "2011-10-14T19:39:53Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > I voted 7, I will concede that if a god showed up and somehow could prove their godhood I would be willing to change my mind. That sizes up my position as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/33 "2011-10-14T19:41:10Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I wouldn’t say anything if someone else hadn’t, but to some extent I must side with **AHunter3** ; I see no satisfying method of projecting my beliefs onto the scale as written. Although I have some level of certainty in a kind of quasi-deistic Aristotelian/[Scholastic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism) god (say, a 2), in practice I’m closer to a 6. I suspect that underlying the scale is the conception of god as a personal deity deserving of, and receptive to, worship, but I don’t really know. Hmm, interesting. Thanks, **Paranoid Randroid**. Perhaps you or **AHunter3** could post a poll with options worded more comfortably for you. I would have some interest in seeing if or how that changed responses. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/34 "2011-10-14T19:41:26Z")
> [@Little\_Bird](#): > > I’m about a 6.99. I am really, really, really sure there is no god, the same way I’m really, really, really sure there is no Santa Claus. But, if we truly live in an infinite universe I do have to leave the teensy possibility that there is some sort of god-like entity out there, just like I have to leave the possibility that there is a planet where the indigenous life forms are Volkswagen Beetles. Me, too. It seems incredibly obvious to me that this God fellow is a construct of a human mind seeking to find meaning in the universe. Whereas I think, if there is meaning to be found, it behooves us to find it, not accept that someone else ineffably knows the Big Plan. Hell, no. If I believe in a god entity at all it is the universe and everything in it - everything combined makes up a god that we all are part of. Then the cosmos itself is a god and we are already part of it, and this god demands neither good nor evil. It merely demands that we be, at least for now, until something comes along that can better explain the universe. We are the universe, manifest, trying to figure ourselves out. A quote from a TV show but one I certainly believe. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/35 "2011-10-14T19:44:29Z")
I fell in Skagway. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/36 "2011-10-14T19:47:52Z")
Voted 3, but realistically it’s probably a 2.75 or something. I definitely believe in God (for the most part anyway), largely because I think that accepting the alternative - not believing in ANYTHING - is resoundingly depressing. For any sort of proof or vindication of my beliefs, all I have to do is read into some of the near death experiences that have been expounded upon for the past few decades. Those phenomenon, _if they are genuine,_ may not be proof of God, but they’re probably proof of _something._ ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/37 "2011-10-14T19:54:29Z")
> [@Fatwater\_Fewl](#): > > Er, well, we _are_ looking at the types of trees that comprise the forest. But my point, **AHunter3** , is that it’s the composition of the forest I’m asking about, not the patterns in the bark on a particular tree. I’m not being deliberately difficult. OK I’ll say 1.5 but I think that could be severely misleading. I don’t “believe” anything I do not know to be true. I’m not certain of anything whatsoever. Knowledge isn’t certainty but a confidence in experience and its interpretation. The use of any term implies that one finds that term useful but the farther one moves from unproblematic elements that everyone agrees do exist, the less likely it is that there’s strong agreement on what that term means. Especially with abstractions. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/38 "2011-10-14T19:55:20Z")
> [@Fatwater\_Fewl](#): > > Hmm, interesting. Thanks, **Paranoid Randroid**. Perhaps you or **AHunter3** could post a poll with options worded more comfortably for you. I would have some interest in seeing if or how that changed responses. - I think it is possible to know and I am a Theist who believes in a Personal God - i.e., a Being to be prayed to, etc. - I think it is possible to know and I am a Theist who believes in a form of Greater Power, but not a Personal God - I think it is possible to know and I am an Atheist - I think it is possible to know, but am not sure or choose not to decide - I am Agnostic - I think it is NOT possible for Man to know the answer to this question - but the point is not the answer, it is the asking of the question - I think it is NOT possible for Man to know the answer, and I spend no time contemplating it… These feel like better options to me… ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/39 "2011-10-14T20:05:38Z")
I’m a 1. Don’t all you 6’s and 7’s worry…those of us on this end of the scale will pray _ **really, really hard** _, and you’ll be all right… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/40 "2011-10-14T20:10:12Z")
6.99. Since I cannot prove a negative, I must concede that it is remotely possible evidence will emerge proving the existence of a God. Similarly, I cannot insist with absolute certainty that there is not an invisible, intangible pink unicorn eating invisible carrots behind my desk right now. This being said, the existence of either is such an extraordinary claim, requiring so many extraordinary antecedents, that the burden really must be upon the advocates to offer this evidence if I’m to take their claims seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653.md?page=3)