# The Dawkins' Belief Scale: Where Do You Fall? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653 "2011-10-14T17:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/61 "2011-10-14T22:21:45Z")
My dog just barfed up voluminuous amounts of halloween candy supplies that we’d just stocked up on, an amount that I would have previously argued as logically impossible based on the evidence presented. She has demonstrated that she has some sort of Tardis bigger-on-the-inside field at work defying traditional topological laws, and I’ve had to adapt my preconceived assumptions. So…6.9 ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/62 "2011-10-14T22:37:51Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I know this is not a debate, and I don’t mean to argue, nor pick on you, nor single you out, but I’ve heard the two points you expressed all my life and I still don’t get it. > > 1.\*\* You believe because not believing in anything is depressing\*\* - You believe in yourself, don’t you, your abilities, the people you interact with? You believe the world you’re experiencing exists, that your cell phone functions, that eating food sustains your life, don’t you? So you do believe in things, real, tangible things. Why do you need a belief in the supernatural to stave off your depression? > > 1. **For proof or vindication of your beliefs, all it takes is for you to read about near death experiences** - I’m sorry, but reading about near-death experiences is not proof of anything, other than the writers ability to delude or prey upon the reader’s fears and hopes, or to express their own delusions. I can write a book about near death experiences that I’ve never actually had. Would my lies vindicate your beliefs? Why, or why not? You may respond, “well, maybe some of them are fabrications, but certainly not all of them; some must be real accounts.” Why? What brings you to this conclusion? Is it precisely because their claims cannot be verified that you believe them? > > Again, please pardon my questions and any perceived incendiary tone. I’m genuinely curious. I wanted to ask similar things, but didn’t bring it up because this isn’t GD. Another thing I want to ask \*\*2ManyTacos \*\*is if \*his \*God is a God who would want **2ManyTacos** to believe in him/her/it, just because it benefits **2ManyTacos** life? I was going to ask ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/63 "2011-10-14T22:51:57Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > I agree with this. The problem for Jung by the way in the BBC interview where he is asked if he believes in God, from where he is quoted (“I know”) is that he has difficulties with the word “believe” – “Either I know, or I have a hypothesis… I cannot _believe_ so-and-so…” (This is paraphrasing from memory.) Personally I understand this notion, because I have difficulties to understand the word “believe”, and to “believe in God” is close to impossible to relate to – personally I don’t know what “God” is supposed to be. I do not believe in God as described in the Bible for instance, but there seems to be a “will” in my life, several experiences suggesting an “interferer” for lack of better word. To me that is a fact, it is not belief, but is the interferer God – I don’t know because I don’t know what “God” is. I don’t mean to put my arm around Jung and say, hey, we’re two of a kind, but I understand his hesitation, and perhaps unfortunate “I know”; not that I too “know”, because then the vote would be easy, but the unableness to answer the question about believing in God, and ruling out the word belief; though in contrast to Jung, I need to rule out “God” too. Belief is a very weird word. Sometimes taken as ‘do you believe that God exists’, but I think it is more scriptural accurate to use it in the context do you believe in God’s saving power in your life - which fits in the condition of salvation. So to believe in God one has to already know God. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/64 "2011-10-14T23:02:27Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > 4 - Stong agnostic. I don’t know, and neither do you. 🙂 No, but I know what my own beliefs are. Faith is emotional, not just a reasoned-out logical position, and I’m certain that I don’t feel that emotion. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/65 "2011-10-15T00:09:16Z")
Depends on which god you’re talking about. Abrahamic god, not to mention Greek/Roman/Norse/whatever gods? Put me down as a 7; I no more believe in those than I do characters from a novel. Nevertheless, I can describe a being which has god-like properties and isn’t obviously impossible. There’s no real reason for a being like this to exist, but I can’t confidently say it’s impossible. So put me down as a 6.9 on the general scale. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/66 "2011-10-15T00:49:55Z")
I picked 7 because I’m as certain about the non-existence of God as I am about ANY statement about the real world. I’d be less surprised to discover that I’m a brain in a vat than I would be to discover God is real. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/67 "2011-10-15T00:55:41Z")
1. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/68 "2011-10-15T02:20:58Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I picked 7 because I’m as certain about the non-existence of God as I am about ANY statement about the real world. I’d be less surprised to discover that I’m a brain in a vat than I would be to discover God is real. Right, but who would be the ones that put our brains in a vat? “God(s)”? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/69 "2011-10-15T02:25:04Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > I voted 7, I will concede that if a god showed up and somehow could prove their godhood I would be willing to change my mind. Using this statement as a jumping off point…I went with a 7 because even if such a being were to show up, I’d have no particular reason to respect, adore, worship or otherwise care about him/her/it/they/other which is kind of implied in “godhood”. _Religion_ is still not something I’d care for. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/70 "2011-10-15T03:39:20Z")
5, I don’t know, I can definately not rule out there being someone, somewhere smarter and more powerful than myself. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/71 "2011-10-15T04:03:57Z")
Vampires are much, much more likely than the absurd, psycho-douchebag God of the Judeo-Christian tradition. And I don’t believe vampires exist… so 7. Of course, I’m open to evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/72 "2011-10-15T04:09:13Z")
> [@](#): > > De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. “I don’t know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.” Close to this. I live my life on the assumption that if he is there, I will one day kick his ASS for being such a fucking jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/73 "2011-10-15T05:58:03Z")
7 for me. While I admit that one cannot know _anything_ with 100% certitude, I rate the possibility of there being any kind of supreme being a lot lower than the possibility that I am a computer simulation or the dream of a butterfly or any number of other incredibly unlikely situations. I’m a 6.999 recurring, but at some point you just have to say “Enough hair splitting: there are no gods and I am an atheist.” ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/74 "2011-10-15T06:08:20Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m a 1. > Don’t all you 6’s and 7’s worry…those of us on this end of the scale will pray _ **really, really hard** _, and you’ll be all right… > > 😃 I’m going to get a couple of extra Rosaries. Praying for all these guys is going to wear them off in no time- ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/75 "2011-10-15T08:34:36Z")
I voted 7, but I would rephrase it as “I don’t see any reason to believe in a God, not even a low-probability reason.” ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/76 "2011-10-15T13:27:47Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Framing a middle position is very idiosyncratic. What does “completely impartial” actually mean? How would/should an agnostic rate themselves? Or a [Possibilian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possibilianism)(wiki link - getting a lot of coverage on TED lectures, in the New Yorker, etc.)? I can definitely relate to the Possibilian argument; I lean toward it regularly. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Theists like to switch between two gods all the time in argument. Maybe your argument would work better if you used the phrase “Abrahamic theists” instead of assuming we’re all from the same framework. > [@AHunter3](#): > > Can’t vote, I don’t fit on the scale at all. Too many undefined terms, especially “believe” and “God”. > > Consider myself theistic. I consider myself an animistic theist (with apparent Possibilian tendencies), so I put myself in the “3” position. Through my experiences of the world, my ideas about “the divine” would be much more heavily connected to, if there is definite supernatural/god-like beings, that the energy and qualities that make them god-like reside in everything. Humans, rocks, trees, animals… all living, non-manmade things. It could be as simple as the idea of the will to exist on through a supernatural being whose sole existence is built around the object or living thing that it represents-- malevolent, benevolent, or a mixture of the two, it is within the realm of possibility that they are there as an element of that object or living thing. Any “gods” or supernatural beings that are “high” enough to be devoted to worship beyond acknowledgment or offerings would be more unlikely in my scope of things, and there certainly would be no “god” above reproach. If applying my framework of possibility, I’d be much more likely to acknowledge the existence of sprites, brownies, elves, elementals, etc. as representatives of the supernatural than a “high god” like, say, Zeus or Jesus or Allah. I’m not certain one way or the other, but I lean toward belief rather than way from it. I do, however, realize that this point of view is outside the norm, especially in a US-centric poll. ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/77 "2011-10-15T14:50:38Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I’m not being deliberately difficult. > > OK I’ll say 1.5 but I think that could be severely misleading. I don’t “believe” anything I do not know to be true. I’m not certain of anything whatsoever. Knowledge isn’t certainty but a confidence in experience and its interpretation. The use of any term implies that one finds that term useful but the farther one moves from unproblematic elements that everyone agrees do exist, the less likely it is that there’s strong agreement on what that term means. Especially with abstractions. Thanks for this, your clarification is much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/78 "2011-10-15T15:00:25Z")
> [@nashiitashii](#): > > I consider myself an animistic theist (with apparent Possibilian tendencies), so I put myself in the “3” position. Would a pantheist answer “1” by definition? ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/79 "2011-10-15T15:05:34Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > 6.99… You should have listed 6.99… as an option, as Dawkins specifically discusses it. The point is that to be completely honest with ourselves we have to question the possibility of truly knowing anything. I thought about it, but the way my mind works I would have then felt that I had to insert gradations as options between each whole number. So I went the simpler route of asking people to insert their own decimal point. IOW, I’m lazy. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-dawkins-belief-scale-where-do-you-fall/599653/80 "2011-10-15T15:41:08Z")
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