# The Death of Socrates **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 10, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435 "2004-03-10T05:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![manx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@manx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manx)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/1 "2004-03-10T05:45:49Z")
I’m part way through my BA, and a politics major. As such, I often run into references to Plato and Socrates and the like. Now, as part of a paper on Persecution and Toleration, we have a lecture on the death of Socrates, on account of how it was awfully, y’know, intolerant of Athens to do so. I took Classics in secondary school, and failed Ancient Greek History fairly dismally, but I’m sure I read that the reason Socrates was sentenced to death was that, having been found guilt on charges of corrupting Athenian youth, he was given the option of choosing a sentence, say exile, or being fined. Socrates instead decided that his sentence should be that the Athenian state maintain, at their expense, a suitable standard of living for him. The courts declined to do so, and he was given the death sentence. Now what I want to know is, have I just made this up? I don’t think I have, but then I can’t remember where I read it, I’ve never come across it in anything concerning the subject. C’mon, classically knowledgeable Dopers, I need your help - have I lost the plot? Is it a good thing I’m no longer an ancient history major? (Well, probably that goes without saying) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/2 "2004-03-10T05:53:33Z")
I’m working from memory here, but my recollection is that the Athenian legal system required each side to submit a proposed punishment and the jury would choose between them. The prosecutor asked for a death penalty. If Socrates had asked for some lesser but real penalty, like exile, the jury might have chosen it. Instead, he proposed his subsidy “punishment”. Choosing between the two proposals, the jury decided that death was more appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Reader99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Reader99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reader99)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/3 "2004-03-10T05:54:12Z")
> [@](#): > > The accusers of Socrates proposed the punishment of death. In proposing death, the accusers might well have expected to counter with a proposal for exile–a punishment that probably would have satisfied both them and the jury. Instead, Socrates audaciously proposes to the jury that he be rewarded, not punished. According to Plato, Socrates asks the jury for free meals in the Prytaneum, a public dining hall in the center of Athens. [http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/socrates/socratesaccount.html](http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/socrates/socratesaccount.html) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/4 "2004-03-10T05:58:03Z")
Another factor to consider was Socrates’ age - he was 71, a very old age for his era. It’s possible he knew he was going to die soon anyway and decided to go out dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![manx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@manx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manx)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/5 "2004-03-10T06:00:34Z")
Yahoo! I’m not inventing facts! Thanks to both **LittleNemo** and **Reader99** ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/6 "2004-03-10T16:49:03Z")
Even after the sentence was pronounced, Socrates probably had an opportunity to flee and go into de facto exile, but he chose to submit to execution. In _The Crito_, some of Socrates’ students (including Crito) have a plan to spirit Socrates away, a plan which the Athenian authorities know about and are willing to allow, but Socrates feels it’s his duty to follow the dictates of his home country’s democracy, so he drinks the poison. _The Crito_ is one of Plato’s early dialogues and, as such, is believed to be a more-or-less accurate reporting of Socrates’ actual actions (as contrasted with the later dialogues, which are more often Plato presenting his own philosophical opinions by having them some out of Socrates’ mouth). –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/7 "2004-03-10T19:18:22Z")
For the record, while _Apologia_ does have Socrates suggesting free room & board as a potential ‘punishment’, he ultimately proposes a small fine. He also notes that the money to pay the fine will be donated by some of the youths he is accused of corrupting … ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/8 "2004-03-10T19:33:14Z")
According to Plato, Socrates’ last words were a request that Crito fulfill an offering owed to Asclepius, the god of medicine and healing. This may indicate that Socrates was already dying. The trial just afforded him an opportunity to go out “with a bang”. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/9 "2004-03-10T19:46:16Z")
My recollection is that the OP is essentially correct. For references, see I.F. Stone’s **The Trial of Socrates** or the critical notes to the Penguin edition of **The Trial and Death of Socrates**. Heck, look up Volume 2 of Larry Gonick’s **Cartoon History of the Universe**. If I’m not mistaken, all three of these agree that it wasn’t just a vague sense of Socrates corrupting the youth – the fears of the Athenians were that this was a weajkening of the state, with Socrates inciting the youths to be sympathetic with Athens’ rival, Sparta, so it was a “live” issue. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/10 "2004-03-11T03:33:14Z")
In particular, I.F. Stone’s account casts doubt on the whole “poor persecuted Socrates” version of his trial and death sentence. Stone basicly paints Socrates as the ancient Athenian equivalent of a radical lefty crank, whose contempt for his own society and government got him condemned. ---
**Author:** ![DevilDan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DevilDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DevilDan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/11 "2004-03-11T05:53:19Z")
“Socrates died for our sins.” is a sign/sig that I have used, I believe of my own invention. (The other one was: “Giordano Bruno died for our sins.”) Too bad the execution of Socrates didn’t pan out, PR-wise, as successfully as Jesus Christ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/12 "2004-03-11T16:52:58Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > In particular, I.F. Stone’s account casts doubt on the whole “poor persecuted Socrates” version of his trial and death sentence. Stone basicly paints Socrates as the ancient Athenian equivalent of a radical lefty crank, whose contempt for his own society and government got him condemned. But so what? Should that be a capital offense? –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/13 "2004-03-11T18:38:36Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > But so what? Should that be a capital offense? > > –Cliffy It’s going to be pretty tough trying to find a several thousand year old Athenian to answer your question. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/14 "2004-03-11T21:56:07Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > But so what? Should that be a capital offense? > > –Cliffy Ask that of a person living in a nation state not much bigger than a modern “small town”, whose society has just nearly been wiped out by war and plague. Ask this person, whose entire world is on the verge of collapse, whether a charismatic figure who begins undermining the last vestages of their way of life deserves to be eliminated. I think you’ll get more than a few “shit, yes” kind of replies. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/15 "2004-03-11T23:46:16Z")
I have witnessed a renactment of Socrates’ last day, and it paints a much different picture than that given by previous posters. It went something like this… Unnamed Athenian : Socrates, you have been found guilty of corrupting the youth of Athens. Here is the hemlock. Socrates : Glug glug glug. Thanks, I was thirsty. So what’s the penalty? U A: Why, the penalty is Death! S: Oh, well then I take it all back. I’ll go apologize to everyone. U A: But, but Socrates, you just drank the Hemlock! S: Soooo? UA: Hemlock is poisonous! S: Whaaat? Well why didn’t anyone tell me? It was always “Socrates, what is truth? Socrates, what is justice?” But did anyone ever come up to me and say “Socrates, Hemlock is poisonous?” NOOOOOoooooooooooo. It was on TV so it must be true. Steve Martin would never lie to me. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-socrates/233435/16 "2004-03-12T00:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > According to Plato, Socrates’ last words were a request that Crito fulfill an offering owed to Asclepius But Socrates’ penultimate words were, “Gosh all hemlock!” …which has become a famous saying to this day.