# the death of the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695 "2019-08-15T12:56:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/261 "2019-08-20T01:11:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m not necessarily talking about Trump-era idiocy. I’m talking more about garden-variety political disagreements- the role of government, property rights vs. public good, defense spending vs. social programs, etc… > > NONE of those things are fixed in stone, ignorant or idiotic, on either side. > > But the progressive side has basically reframed the debate around here such that disagreeing with the party line about say… defense spending, and the debate takes on the feel that they’re trying to fight your ignorance. Got a cite for any specific example(s) of this? Because I personally haven’t encountered a recent thread on, say, defense spending, nor do I think of it as a subject about which rational people can’t disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/262 "2019-08-20T01:42:38Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Nazis are bad. Full stop. Today’s Nazis are nothing but bad. It’s not like 1930s & 1940s Germany where people were required to be in the NAZI party for certain things. Today’s Nazis are in it because of the white supremacy and anti-Semitism, period. > [@](#): > > Trade wars are not “easy to win”. And starting one is completely stupid. > [@](#): > > Concentration camps are bad. Also, “Concentration camp” DOES NOT EQUAL “Death camp”. What we have under Trump absolutely are concentration camps. What’s worse, the current administration is (or was, I’m a bit behind with the news at the moment) trying to get the courts to approve running the camps in a cruel manner. > [@](#): > > Trump is an embarrassment on the world stage that it will take the USA decades to recover from. If ever. I fear it’s actually gotten that bad. > [@](#): > > A 10-year-old Somalian refugee growing up to become a congresswoman is an example of an immigration success story, not of failure. Exactly right. And telling her to “go back where she came from” is nothing but anti-American bigotry. Couple the fact that she’s Black and telling other Blacks to “go back where they came from” is not only anti-American bigotry, it’s dismissing the suffering that their ancestors experienced and that Blacks today continue to experience. It’s also completely ignoring the simple fact that Blacks around the country still experience bigots telling them to “go back to Africa if you don’t like it here” or “you should be glad you’re here because your ancestors were brought from Africa”, etc. Today’s Republic Party has abandoned any pretense whatsoever of adhering to what we used to call “American Ideals”. They’re simply craven. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/263 "2019-08-20T01:46:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > It’s quite simple, really, and is something you should’ve figured out by 3rd grade, 8th at the latest: > > Donald Trump is an asshole. Everyone agrees he’s an asshole, and nobody bothers to defend the asshole. By his very nature, he invites abuse, and therefore is worthy of every bit of scorn we can put on his fat ass, his ridiculous hair, his obvious incestuous feelings for his daughter, his pouty whiny baby lips… all of it is fair game. > > And why? Why is he so special? > > [For this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA). > > So fuck this guy, and fuck everybody who defends him and comes here whining like a little bitch saying “OH, POOR DONNIES TRUMPS GOTZ BODY SHAMED ON THE DOPERS, THATS SO MEAN, GUYS!” I’ll buck the trend of this thread and say that body shaming is wrong, even when it’s directed at Trump. He is an odious, hateful man, undeserving of, and unqualified for the office of president. It’s tempting to direct any conceivable insult his way. That’s when it’s most important to hold on to principles; when it would be so easy to overlook them just this once. I can still criticize his behavior, his morals, his ethics, and his performance as president. That’s enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/264 "2019-08-20T02:03:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Got a cite for any specific example(s) of this? Because I personally haven’t encountered a recent thread on, say, defense spending, nor do I think of it as a subject about which rational people can’t disagree. For real? There is a current thread in GD equating right wing folks with racists. Or those that support gun rights as racists. The board isn’t very open towards conservatives or right leaning views at all. This isn’t helped by the fact that so many conservative arguments are often presented poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/265 "2019-08-20T03:01:55Z")
hey great ATMB thread so far. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/266 "2019-08-20T03:06:38Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > For real? There is a current thread in GD equating right wing folks with racists. Or those that support gun rights as racists. I repeat: Cite? Exactly what rhetoric are you pointing to in support of claims that the Dope has become an undifferentiated “echo chamber” on matters of opinion? Presumably you’re not complaining merely because **some** posters express opinions equating right-wingers or gun-rights supporters with racists, since those are, after all, matters of opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/267 "2019-08-20T03:16:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The board isn’t very open towards conservatives or right leaning views at all. This isn’t helped by the fact that so many conservative arguments are often presented poorly. Well, if people trying to defend conservative and right-leaning viewpoints are making poor arguments, they can’t really expect rational people to be “open” to that. Remember back fifteen years ago or so when everybody was always scolding the general category of “moderate Muslims” for not doing a better job of policing and restraining the loony extremists on “their side”? Maybe we should be getting after the “moderate conservatives” for letting their own loony extremists get so carried away with ignorance, irrationality and idiocy. Because as it stands, not only do “moderate conservatives” seem to feel they have no responsibility in that direction, but they’re getting sore at non-conservatives for pointing out that their loony extremists are making them look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/268 "2019-08-20T04:14:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I repeat: Cite? Exactly what rhetoric are you pointing to in support of claims that the Dope has become an undifferentiated “echo chamber” on matters of opinion? > > Presumably you’re not complaining merely because **some** posters express opinions equating right-wingers or gun-rights supporters with racists, since those are, after all, matters of opinion. First - I’m not complaining. You asked for an example and I gave you one. Second - It’s not in support of the echo chamber claim - just that there’s a reason why some conservatives may decide engaging just isn’t worth it. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, if people trying to defend conservative and right-leaning viewpoints are making poor arguments, they can’t really expect rational people to be “open” to that. > > Remember back fifteen years ago or so when everybody was always scolding the general category of “moderate Muslims” for not doing a better job of policing and restraining the loony extremists on “their side”? Maybe we should be getting after the “moderate conservatives” for letting their own loony extremists get so carried away with ignorance, irrationality and idiocy. Because as it stands, not only do “moderate conservatives” seem to feel they have no responsibility in that direction, but they’re getting sore at non-conservatives for pointing out that their loony extremists are making them look bad. This is probably more of a pet peeve for me. You’re engaging with individuals. But you’re switching from the individual to the general. Sure, the sentiment you identify was espoused, and probably still is. That has about zero to do with the individuals that are in this discussion. Oh but conservatives this, liberals that, progressives this, Republicans that. It’s pretty tedious. Once that happens I usually check out. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/269 "2019-08-20T04:26:51Z")
Why does I get teh feels that we ain’t gonna get no links to theses awful threads? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/270 "2019-08-20T04:35:22Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Why does I get teh feels that we ain’t gonna get no links to theses awful threads? > > CMC fnord! Because it’s a dishonest request. Reading a sample of the any portion of the forum that deals with politics is all the evidence you need. What’s the point in linking a thread or 100 and saying here you go when the only thing that will accomplish is endless nitpicking on what exactly is being conveyed with quite a bit of disingenuous descriptions of what is clearly written. C’mon now! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/271 "2019-08-20T04:46:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > {…} quite a bit of disingenuous descriptions of what is clearly written. {…} Why, yes, exactly! That’s why “There is a current thread in GD equating right wing folks with racists.” isn’t as good as an actual link! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/272 "2019-08-20T06:03:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 And now you think my pointing out the flaw in your logic somehow counts as “racist” or “sexist”? Look, **Ale** , while it’s certainly true that you’re not much of a thinker, that has nothing to do with your being white or male, and I would never suggest that it did. White people and male people are not intrinsically dumber than anyone else (except sometimes about some issues involving racism or sexism, but that’s a form of culturally indoctrinated obliviousness rather than natural stupidity). Virtue signalling, self hating, racist statements by white people are practically in the definition of wokeness. You hand wave away racism when it’s done the “right” way, I don’t because I have principles and one of those is to not indulge in prejudice which you have done over and over again as shown last time, while in your apparent habit of going around yapping at my ankles, [you had your ass handed back](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21754976#post21754976) and only succeeded in laying bare your prejudicial nature, hypocrisy and lack of self awareness. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/273 "2019-08-20T06:36:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I find it productive to engage with those I disagree with. It helps me grow as a person. 🙂 “Grow as a person”? What are you, some kind of fucking saguaro? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/274 "2019-08-20T06:38:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “Grow as a person”? What are you, some kind of fucking saguaro? Well, he is prickly. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/275 "2019-08-20T09:22:43Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > For real? There is a current thread in GD equating right wing folks with racists. Or those that support gun rights as racists. The board isn’t very open towards conservatives or right leaning views at all. This isn’t helped by the fact that so many conservative arguments are often presented poorly. What threads are you referring to? I looked at the top dozen or so in GD and I couldn’t figure out which ones you meant. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/276 "2019-08-20T12:02:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What threads are you referring to? I looked at the top dozen or so in GD and I couldn’t figure out which ones you meant. [Undoubtedly this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=880673). ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/277 "2019-08-20T17:00:58Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > For real? There is a current thread in GD equating right wing folks with racists. Or those that support gun rights as racists. The board isn’t very open towards conservatives or right leaning views at all. This isn’t helped by the fact that so many conservative arguments are often presented poorly. This is ridiculous and insulting to good faith liberal posters. And you are owning yourself. So the reason I was unable to make my point effectively and with finality was just that the arguer on the other side was impaired, and unable to rise to the intellectual occasion? The dog ate his argument? Then why did you become a mod if they are helpless and need you so badly? Why don’t you light a few candles instead of cursing the darkness? The first step is to get introspective on why those arguments are failing. You could even do it in one of those horrible anti con threads. You can do whatever you want. Are you afraid you will appear weak? The next step, I predict, is that the reasons those arguments are inferior have to do with the validity of the arguments, and not the competency of the posters. Whether that’s true or not, some basic respect for those trying in good faith to make arguments for progressive advance is really missing. “Bad arguments” is really the end of the issue and nobody should be griping. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/278 "2019-08-20T18:19:20Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Oh but conservatives this, liberals that, progressives this, Republicans that. It’s pretty tedious. Once that happens I usually check out. Sure doesn’t stop you when one of our resident Second Amendment “defenders” starts screeching “LIBRULS WANNA TAKE OUR GUNZ!” Which is about as accurate as your > [@](#): > > For real? There is a current thread in GD equating right wing folks with racists. Or those that support gun rights as racists. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/279 "2019-08-20T23:45:05Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Sure doesn’t stop you when one of our resident Second Amendment “defenders” starts screeching “LIBRULS WANNA TAKE OUR GUNZ!” > > Which is about as accurate as your The scare quotes really made your point. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/280 "2019-08-21T02:05:36Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > You hand wave away racism when it’s done the “right” way You haven’t yet managed to explain why you think the statement you were apparently complaining about is actually racist at all. I [repeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21813188&postcount=186): What do you think the statement “I’d just as soon see white guys all go back to where they came from”, posted by a white guy, even means? > [@Ale](#): > > I don’t because I have principles and one of those is to not indulge in prejudice which you have done over and over again as shown last time, while in your apparent habit of going around yapping at my ankles, [you had your ass handed back](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21754976#post21754976) Uh, you were actually the one who subsequently [had your ass handed to you in that exchange](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21755900&postcount=161), beginning with this statement: > [@](#): > > I am happy to apologize for initially mistaking you for an American, but none of your other criticisms of what I posted are valid. And you’re being rather excessively sensitive if you consider that my very rare replies to your posts constitute “going around yapping at [your] ankles”. How many posts have you made on these boards in the last couple of months, and how many of them have I responded to? Those must be some awfully delicate ankles you’ve got there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695.md?page=15)