# the death of the Dope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695 "2019-08-15T12:56:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/41 "2019-08-15T16:20:33Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > So, after 20 years of largely ignoring the board drama that always seems to be going on, I am going to say that the moderation of this Board has lost its direction. …At which point **JohnT** gets a warning for posting complaints about board moderation in the wrong forum. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/42 "2019-08-15T16:23:23Z")
It’ll be my third warning in a year, so I’m sure I’ll be banned. However, I should just lie and make shit up, even about other people here. **That** doesn’t get you banned on a Board dedicated to… \ … ahhh, yes, “fighting ignorance.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/43 "2019-08-15T16:23:43Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Who is more reprehensible in this scenario? The trolls, who are doing what they do, i.e. purposefully trying to prevent meaningful discussion, especially on certain topics, or those other posters whom we don’t label but who seem constitutionally unable to just let troll posts sit there and fester. Maybe we need another Omnibus thread calling out those who can’t leave a steaming pile of turds well enough alone. I know who’s at the top of my list, he’s pulling it in this thread too. I know exactly who you mean. I’ve long had\*\* iiandyiiii \*\*on that list. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/44 "2019-08-15T16:24:18Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > When I say something that some people find offensive (usually sexist or misogynistic) I make a genuine effort to not say that anymore AND to change my thinking. The Offensive Half Dozen could read the room for once and either change their tune or move on. Nobody’s buying what they’re selling and have been selling for a decade or two, so why bother trying? > > I believe that management has grown lax in their use of the ban hammer, and suspension gives one time to reassess ones behaviour. > > [junior mod] However, all discussion of board policy belongs in ATMB. [/junior mod] > > d&r I think **madmonk28** deliberately put this in the Pit so that posters can call out the trolls by name. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/45 "2019-08-15T16:28:00Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Who is more reprehensible in this scenario? The trolls, who are doing what they do, i.e. purposefully trying to prevent meaningful discussion, especially on certain topics, or those other posters whom we don’t label but who seem constitutionally unable to just let troll posts sit there and fester. Maybe we need another Omnibus thread calling out those who can’t leave a steaming pile of turds well enough alone. I know who’s at the top of my list, he’s pulling it in this thread too. You say that if it’s a bad thing. Engage the trolls. Let them know you won’t stand for that shit. Oh yes, and report them too, if you think it will do any good. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/46 "2019-08-15T16:36:12Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I think **madmonk28** deliberately put this in the Pit so that posters can call out the trolls by name. I know, and I indicated it by ducking and running after I said it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/47 "2019-08-15T16:38:04Z")
I think the mods are fine. I think we just live in really toxic times in which political and social discussions have taken on additional dimensions in terms of their real-world impact. I’ve found that in the real world and online it is harder and harder to have meaningful discussions that don’t eventually devolve into name calling and questioning someone’s character. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/48 "2019-08-15T16:38:05Z")
I dunno… my usual response is to think that a lot of the people griping about the excesses of moderation or the opposite are usually ones who need to just suck it up and deal with it. It’s an internet message board, not your own personal special place where nobody’s ever going to say anything offensive, or make fun of you, or laugh at you or roast your sacred cows. The vast majority of us are adults and need to act like it, not whiny, petulant, easily offended children. I mean, plenty of people say, or more often imply borderline offensive stuff that relates to me all the time (upper middle class Christian white man with a moderate, maybe slightly conservative political outlook). Do I get all butthurt? Of course not- I know it’s not personal, even though it may feel that way from time to time. Now I agree that **Nate’s** post was in poor taste, and the mods probably ought to have checked him earlier on than they did. But I think shutting it down was the right thing to do- it had more or less come off the rails at that point, which is exactly when mods ought to shut down threads about a specific topic, especially sensitive ones like that. Where I’m a bit conflicted is whether the real issue was the language he used, or the topic itself. I mean, had he kept it relatively clinical and not been so coarse or graphic, would there have been any issue? I mean, he’s right that some attractive women and/or ones who are wearing overtly sexual clothing can be very distracting. His language and descriptions were more what I’d have expected to hear in a ca. 1989 frat house or high school locker room, not in polite and/or mixed company. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/49 "2019-08-15T16:42:32Z")
> [@Amara\_1](#): > > Yeah, this was egregious. Two mods saw the issue and yet decided to to just close the thread which is exactly the desired effect by the usual suspects. Gaaah, this is so frustrating. No, it’s not the desired effect of the usual suspects. They don’t want to close the thread, they want to keep arguing forever about how this change is super complicated and unfair if we don’t solve every problem at the same time. They certainly don’t want the thread closed with a mod note saying “you’re wrong, we’ve decided, now get with the program”. Why do you think Ultravires started a thread complaining about the closure? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/50 "2019-08-15T16:51:57Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think the mods are fine. I think we just live in really toxic times in which political and social discussions have taken on additional dimensions in terms of their real-world impact. I’ve found that in the real world and online it is harder and harder to have meaningful discussions that don’t eventually devolve into name calling and questioning someone’s character. Typical drivel coming from a sniveling bourgeoisie sympathizer. Your type really makes me ill. Why back in the day you’d get a good thrashing… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/51 "2019-08-15T16:52:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > **Shodan** , openly and repeatedly lied about a personal experience _I_ had. Blatantly and repeatedly lied, even after my pointing out that he was “misrepresenting” what had happened. Is this the thread where you claimed to be Uber-ing Julian Castro around? If so, your accusation is mildly amusing. False, but amusing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/52 "2019-08-15T16:56:41Z")
Since I’m a grown adult, I simply avoid threads I feel are insulting or repulsive in nature. I don’t make an issue out of it because… here it comes again… I’m a grown adult. Geeze, talk about first-world problems. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/53 "2019-08-15T16:58:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Typical drivel coming from a sniveling bourgeoisie sympathizer. Your type really makes me ill. Why back in the day you’d get a good thrashing… If you’re looking for old, chronically enraged asahi, he’s gone on sabbatical. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/54 "2019-08-15T17:02:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > As a man, I’ve been posting less and less lately for exactly this reason. I don’t feel comfortable on a forum where so many posts are so skeevy, and where people complaining about this are treated like crap while the people causing all this are tolerated. > > Obvious trolls are obvious, yet we bend over backwards to avoid banning them. Well, I’m done. If the Powers that Be value posters like Octopus and SlackerInc above the multiple (mostly but not exclusively female) posters who’ve _repeatedly_ told us how uncomfortable they are here, then this isn’t the kind of site I’d want to post on. > > I think trying to change things here is a waste of time. Too many of us are happy to stick our heads in the sand and demand proof that people are actually leaving. Time to move on. Yo overly sensitive and disingenuous fool, where have I been so-called misogynistic? You do realize that, contrary to the desires of the wannabe rulers of this place, mere assertions are not reality? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/55 "2019-08-15T17:04:54Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > If you’re looking for old, chronically enraged asahi, he’s gone on sabbatical. Right. Some tea then? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/56 "2019-08-15T17:07:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > **Shodan** , openly and repeatedly lied about a personal experience _I_ had. Blatantly and repeatedly lied, even after my pointing out that he was “misrepresenting” what had happened. > > So I called him a liar. Because he was, in fact, lying. > > As we know, when calling assholes out as liars, the people calling them out gets punished. _It’s literally in the rules._ > > Somebody can lie - that’s cool. But calling them a liar gets you warned/banned? > > Sometimes this place reminds me of the failing civilization in Hal Clement’s _Half-Life_ where the rules of communication engagement are directly causing the failure of the very society that those rules are meant to support: > > A rule which says you can’t call out liars as liars only benefits the liars. > > Rules that say you can’t call out misogyny only benefits the misogynists. > > So, after 20 years of largely ignoring the board drama that always seems to be going on, I am going to say that the moderation of this Board has lost its direction. You _ **can** _ address the post. That’s been consistent since I’ve been here. You honestly think allowing people to hurl subjective insults at anyone for any reason is a better method? Of course if your desire is mob rule that’s one thing but in essence you want the whole board to be as the pit but for a self-selected obnoxious few. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/57 "2019-08-15T17:08:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yo overly sensitive and disingenuous fool, where have I been so-called misogynistic? You do realize that, contrary to the desires of the wannabe rulers of this place, mere assertions are not reality? What about mere denials? Not rivers in Egypt either, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/58 "2019-08-15T17:12:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You _ **can** _ address the post. That’s been consistent since I’ve been here. You honestly think allowing people to hurl subjective insults at anyone for any reason is a better method? Of course if your desire is mob rule that’s one thing but in essence you want the whole board to be as the pit but for a self-selected obnoxious few. I did. And he misrepresented it again. And I corrected him. And he lied again. Then I told him to stop lying. I got warned for calling him a liar (by saying he “misrepresented” my words), he got mod-noted for lying. Why not read the thread instead of making shit up? [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856350](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856350) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/59 "2019-08-15T17:14:46Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yet, people are warned or mod noted for such language in ATMB. Ain’t it amazing how well the system works? > [@](#): > > Fuck you, dude. You are the problem. You’re 1% as smart as you think you are, and zero percent as interesting. She doesn’t need your kudos. Nobody needs anything you have to contribute to this discussion. > > Warning for personal insults outside the pit, I know. Sorry, Bone. I’m out too. No warning nor note. Couldn’t link for some reason. But there it is. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695/60 "2019-08-15T17:17:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I know exactly who you mean. I’ve long had\*\* iiandyiiii \*\*on that list. I try to avoid responding to trolling – and I have indeed entirely (or nigh-entirely) stopped responding to a handful of posters… but I know I can still do better. On the other hand, I’ve been praised specifically by many Dopers I admire for how I respond to some of the possible trolls. It’s not easy, at least for me, to calibrate exactly when a response enables trolling, or when a response is appropriate (i.e. when it’s not really trolling), and I’m sure I screw it up sometimes. As always, I will continue to try and be a better poster, and I apologize for the times in which I fail. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-of-the-dope/838695.md?page=4)