# The death-spike industry **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 27, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351 "2004-05-27T15:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/201 "2004-05-30T02:48:32Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > I don’t have time or space to write an entire essay explaining exactly what I’m talking about, but it’s obvious that I’m not railing against all of science. Yes, I wrote “rather than subject myself…to science”, but just a few obvious context clues would reveal that I’m referring to the concoctions of laboratory chefs; not knowledge and technolgoy in general. I meant _what_ people have been eating, not how they aquired it. The only thing “obvious” in your writings is a lack of knowledge masked by a lot of sneering bravado. Are you under the impression that the back room of every McDonald’s is a fully-equipped lab producing synthesized food substitutes? I hate to break it to you, but the basic ingredients of McD’s food are conventional meat, grain and vegetable matter. Your dumbassedness continues to show, though at this point I’m willing to entertain the idea that you don’t really believe all of what you’re saying but are simply dragging the subject out by making ridiculous statements solely for the entertainment value. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/202 "2004-05-30T04:18:09Z")
I was beginning to entertain thoughts of **pizzabrat** just trolling this thread, because my mind did not want to contemplate anyone being _this_ willfully ignorant and impermeable when it comes to reason. Then I observed his other recent threads. Arrogance, inability to grasp simple logic and hellacious debating techniques are SOP for this dude. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/203 "2004-05-30T04:36:07Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > you don’t really believe all of what you’re saying but are simply dragging the subject out by making ridiculous statements solely for the entertainment value. That pretty much seems to be his MO. There’s a word for this but I can’t seem to think of it right now. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/204 "2004-05-31T17:33:27Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Oh, yeah? What’s my argument? Based on your posts, apparently it’s “I picked my nose so deeply that I got brain-damage.” Leastways, that’s what your argument sounds like to me. And if the crux of your argument is that “Picking one’s nose so much that you damage your own brain is _bad_!”, well, what else can I do but agree? Fenris, always glad to help ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/205 "2004-05-31T17:50:25Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > In fact, most pizza places make your food to order from scratch; that’s the opposite of fast food. Besides, where I eat pizza, the cheese is cheese, the dough is dough, the sauce is sauce, and the toppings were all once living. This is either a lie or evidence of more nose-picking induced brain-damage. Pizza sauce takes about 3 hours to make right (and at least 40 minutes to make, if not made right–if it doesn’t simmer, the tomatoes are too acidic), the dough takes 10 minutes to make and about 40 minutes to rise the first time. Cheese takes months to make. I’m pretty sure that pepperoni has to dry-cure as well. Thus, it is _not_ made to order from scratch. It uses pre-made processed ingredients. Or was that comment “just satire” too? ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/206 "2004-05-31T18:18:22Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > This is either a lie or evidence of more nose-picking induced brain-damage. > > Pizza sauce takes about 3 hours to make right (and at least 40 minutes to make, if not made right–if it doesn’t simmer, the tomatoes are too acidic), the dough takes 10 minutes to make and about 40 minutes to rise the first time. Cheese takes months to make. I’m pretty sure that pepperoni has to dry-cure as well. > > Thus, it is _not_ made to order from scratch. It uses pre-made processed ingredients. > > Or was that comment “just satire” too? First, the implication that I’d eat at a place that has even any knowledge of _pepperoni_, let alone serve it, is insulting enough, without the excess name calling. Second, that’s such stupid hair-splitting that I’ll have to assume you’re being satirical. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/207 "2004-05-31T18:21:52Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > First, the implication that I’d eat at a place that has even any knowledge of _pepperoni_, let alone serve it, is insulting enough, without the excess name calling. Second, that’s such stupid hair-splitting that I’ll have to assume you’re being satirical. So, this magical pizza place doesn’t serve pepperoni–which, I might add, can be made organically? And it’s hair-splitting to assume that “made from scratch” means…well…“made from scratch”? Heh. Wotta maroon. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/208 "2004-05-31T18:29:24Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > And it’s hair-splitting to assume that “made from scratch” means…well…“made from scratch”? I was the cake baker in my family as a kid; I’ve always been amused at the people who think using a cake mix is starting from scratch. Or “I make cookies from scratch - I slice them myself.” I too would be fascinated to know of a pizza place that has no knowledge of pepperoni. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/209 "2004-05-31T18:43:54Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I was the cake baker in my family as a kid; I’ve always been amused at the people who think using a cake mix is starting from scratch. Or “I make cookies from scratch - I slice them myself.” > > I too would be fascinated to know of a pizza place that has no knowledge of pepperoni. Heh. And cheese–I wonder if they have their own buffalo herd to milk to make the mozzerella that they use for these magic pizzas. And while we’re at it, they must have a pretty big garden. It takes about 3-4 beefsteak tomatoes to make enough sauce for one 16" pizza (give or take…if they’re using Romas/Plum tomatoes (which are better) it takes about 5-8) that would require a fucking _huge_ garden/greenhouse. Assuming they serve 150 pizzas a night (about 1/3d of what a Pizza Hut sells), they’re in a lot of troube–…at ~$10.00/pizza (double the cost of a Pizza Hut pizza), that’s only $1500.00 and when you consider the overhead of the building, the waitstaff, the buffalo herd, the greenhouse, the rennet for the cheese (could you get it out of the buffalos that they could (but choose not to) grind up for sausages, or does it _have_ to come from cows?), the aging vats for the parmesan cheese, etc, there’s a _lot_ of overhead. And he lives in D.C., so a greenhouse would be _required_–or they’re only open for a few months in the summer. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/210 "2004-05-31T18:49:29Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > So, this magical pizza place doesn’t serve pepperoni–which, I might add, can be made organically? > > And it’s hair-splitting to assume that “made from scratch” means…well…“made from scratch”? > > Heh. Wotta maroon. So you wouldn’t allow anyone who has made a dish using cheese as an ingredient to describe it as being made “from scratch”, unless she made the cheese herself? And organic or not, I’d refuse pepperoni on a pizza for the same reason I’d refuse spam or jerk chicken as a topping. Old-world ingredients only for my pizzas, please. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/211 "2004-05-31T18:57:57Z")
Maybe you should try eating only pizza for a month. Tell us how it turns out. It should be only “Old-world” style, since that stuff is really good for you. When come back, bring pizza pie. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/212 "2004-05-31T19:05:21Z")
> [@Chairman Pow](#): > > I thought this would be a rant on Ikea. > > There’s [already a thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=258407) on this topic that you may want to join. Yes! And I’ve finally defeated it! 3,698 views to 3,669 views as of this posting! Ah-hahahahaha! > [@dnooman](#): > > Maybe you should try eating only pizza for a month. Tell us how it turns out. It should be only “Old-world” style, since that stuff is really good for you. > > When come back, bring pizza pie. Pfft! I’ve conducted _that_ experiment plente of times before. Really, there are so many different types of pizza that you can have a perfectly varied & healthy diet on pizza alone. That’s just as easy as the “finest restaurant” diet. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/213 "2004-05-31T19:14:14Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Really, there are so many different types of pizza that you can have a perfectly varied & healthy diet on pizza alone. That’s just as easy as the “finest restaurant” diet. OK, now I’m curious. I’m obviously not an old-world pizza afficionado; I even have jalapenos on mine. What old-world ingredients can you use to create a “perfectly varied & healthy diet?” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/214 "2004-05-31T19:14:24Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Old-world ingredients only for my pizzas, please. Um. Tomatos are a _New World_ food, genius. Pepperoni, salami and other preserved sausages date back to before the Egyptians and _are_ Old-World. Whatta ultra-maroon. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/215 "2004-05-31T19:28:32Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Um. Tomatos are a _New World_ food, genius. Pepperoni, salami and other preserved sausages date back to before the Egyptians and _are_ Old-World. My guess, **Fenris** , is that here **pizzabrat** is talking about style of preparation. There was a recent news article (which unfortunately I can’t find right now) about a flap in the EU about Neapolitan style pizza certification. It’s very different from what you and I think of as pizza. He’s talking (I think) about a very austere style pizza. For instance one that I remember consists of dough (with or without a light coating of olive oil), sliced tomato, mozzerella, and basil. Nothing else. As I said, austere. That said, when we lived in Sicily, we got perfectly good normal pizza from an everyday place down the street. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/216 "2004-05-31T19:33:02Z")
> [@kabbes](#): > > It’s an analogy. He’s saying that if the sofa manufacturers sold their goods with a “death-spike” embedded in them and relied on people to simply _know_ about the death-spike without being told about it, jumping off just in time to avoid being killed, then we would not be too impressed. Especially if they continued to make claims for the sofas’ benefits in the face of the multiple deaths. An analogy? I just thought he had been buying the same cheap furniture as me. Impossibly cheap? Check. Spikes that poke you at random intervals? Check. _Death_ spikes? Maybe Pittish hyperbole but I know what he means and with cheap furniture you pays yer money and you takes yer chances but only a moron would sit on that crap and not expect to get poked now and then. Much like McFood, so he loses ME in the _second_ paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/217 "2004-05-31T19:36:51Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > My guess, **Fenris** , is that here **pizzabrat** is talking about style of preparation. Except that he specified “Old-world _ingredients_” not style of prep. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/218 "2004-05-31T19:38:32Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Except that he specified “Old-world _ingredients_” not style of prep. 🙂 \ Son-of-a-gun! You’re right. OK, I take it back. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/219 "2004-05-31T20:29:22Z")
Well, yes, I’d say that using "store bought cheese’ in a recipe _is_ “making it from scratch”. And same with plain tomato _sauce_ - but NOT “pizza sauce”- which is specially seasoned tomato sauce. If you make a cake “from scratch” no one really requires you to harvest & grind the wheat yourself. Start with plain flour, sure. :rolleyes: But I am interested in the “old world ingredientes”. I always thought that pepperoni was a “classic” pizza topping. 😕 Yes, as an occasional meal- cheese pizza is pretty darn healthful as “fast food” goes. I’d have to say it ranks higher than a 1/4#er w/cheese, supersized fries & Coke. 😛 Given lots of veggie toppings, and an occasional meat topping, you could almost be eating a balanced diet- too high in fat from the cheese, yes, but cheese has lots of good stuff in it. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351/220 "2004-05-31T21:14:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, yes, I’d say that using "store bought cheese’ in a recipe _is_ “making it from scratch”. And same with plain tomato _sauce_ - but NOT “pizza sauce”- which is specially seasoned tomato sauce. If you make a cake “from scratch” no one really requires you to harvest & grind the wheat yourself. Start with plain flour, sure. :rolleyes: Given that he said that the proprietors goes out back and picks tomatoes from the garden (or that he wanted us to believe it) he’s got standards far above what you or I might share. (I also disagree with you about the tomato sauce thing–canned tomatoes? No big deal to use in a normal (IE: standards that aren’t **Pizzabrat’s** ) “from scratch” recipe, but tomato sauce usually already has spices and flavors added, and that’s cheating, IMO) In any case, he still hasn’t given the name of this magic establishment in D.C. Perhaps one of the other D.C. Dopers knows of it. Remember, it’s gotta have a multi-acre tomato greenhouse out back…probably needs to grow it’s own basil too, since drying basil involves _science_ and that’s eeeee-vil. He also hasn’t addressed why store-bought cheese (which generally has anti-clumping agents and anti-discoloration agents) added to it somehow _is_ food, but McDonald’s stuff _isn’t_ food. Fenris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-death-spike-industry/247351.md?page=12)