# The decline in good manners; good or bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726 "2006-08-14T21:24:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/21 "2006-08-15T16:29:12Z")
Good manners should be taught so that people are aware of making others happy and comfortable. If you are a guest in someone’s home and they are very casual, insisting on using formal ettiquette is rude, and vice versa for a hostess to force conventions on her guests, even if it is ‘correct’. Some people get all caught up in what the book says is right, when what you should be concerned with is making other people comfortable. Manners exist to make society run more smoothly and most people can figure out when certain rules should apply. I think we as a society are more casual in general and some people do take that to mean manners don’t matter anymore, but the _idea_ of manners should still be there, in that you are keeping others’ comfort and happiness in your mind. Does that make sense at all? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/22 "2006-08-15T16:39:59Z")
> [@](#): > > **ivylass** said: > Being raised in the South, I was taught to call adults Miss/Mister First Name. It was quite acceptable, denoting respect and familiarity at the same time. I’ve taught the Ivykids to do the same. I have absolutely no idea why, but this is at the absolute bottom of my list for preferred modes of address. I prefer Cat to Ms. Six and both of those over Ms. Cat. For some reason, Ms. Cat is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I don’t know if it’s just a Southern thing anymore either, since I live in Pittsburgh and it happens often here now. I really prefer to be addressed by my first name, because when it’s Title Lastname, I look for my mother. It just seems weird to me to think of myself as Ms. Six. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/23 "2006-08-15T17:19:18Z")
A lot of what was considered good manners really wasn’t well mannered at all. They were simply left overs from more socially and sexually segregated times. Any piece of ‘good manners’ which is dependent on the sex, age or social status of either person involved is not good manners at all, just outmoded social constraints. That said many of those actions should now be considered the correct behaviour independent of whomever is involved. It is good manners to hold a chair for anybody about to sit, it is good manners to open a door or hold open a door for anyone who might benifit from the action. It is good manners to allow the other person to go first whether they are male / female young or old. ---
**Author:** ![gfloyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d2c977/32.png) [@gfloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gfloyd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/24 "2006-08-15T17:21:39Z")
I do not now, nor ever have I, understand why someone who is 35 deserved more respect, ie being called Mr. or Ms., than someone who is 13. I positively hate being called Ms. Floyd and we’re not going to talk about how ridiculous Ms. Sarah sounds. I find, in general, the more honorific a title someone gives me, the less respect they have for me and my abilities. I started off as Sarah and intent to stay that way, even when I get my PhD. Unless someone is treating me like I’m 12, then it’ll be Dr. Floyd, ma’am. I think people are no more or less rude than they were ever, other than in the 1950s, which I see as this nausatingly idealized plastic era. Granted I wasn’t alive then, but I’ve never read anything that disagreed with that. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/25 "2006-08-15T17:34:44Z")
[QUOTE=Velma] Good manners should be taught so that people are aware of making others happy and comfortable. If you are a guest in someone’s home and they are very casual, insisting on using formal ettiquette is rude, and vice versa for a hostess to force conventions on her guests, even if it is ‘correct’. Some people get all caught up in what the book says is right, when what you should be concerned with is making other people comfortable. Manners exist to make society run more smoothly and most people can figure out when certain rules should apply. [/QUOTE] But there are also “good manners” that serve to show distinctions between social groups (sex, class, etc), which I think we’d do well to be rid of. Unfortunately, most people don’t know that that distinction is there- too many people who defend manners on the grounds that they make people more comfortable also defend the silly, arbitrary class-markers like using the right fork, or only wearing white shoes at certain times. That makes people who think the class-markers are stupid go against _all_ etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/26 "2006-08-15T17:46:24Z")
I hate it but have come to realize it’s not something I can battle, for to expect it will only lead to disappointment, but I also can continue to practice good manners, and have my child do so, regardless of what’s become the norm. I do though more often now see people of all races and genders ignoring not just the historically polite customs but also giving The Golden Rule as swift kick in the ass… and that’s a cryin’ shame. That makes absolutely no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![gfloyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d2c977/32.png) [@gfloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gfloyd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/27 "2006-08-15T17:46:33Z")
I do not now, nor ever have I, understand why someone who is 35 deserved more respect, ie being called Mr. or Ms., than someone who is 13. I positively hate being called Ms. Floyd and we’re not going to talk about how ridiculous Ms. Sarah sounds. I find, in general, the more honorific a title someone gives me, the less respect they have for me and my abilities. I started off as Sarah and intent to stay that way, even when I get my PhD. Unless someone is treating me like I’m 12, then it’ll be Dr. Floyd, ma’am. I think people are no more or less rude than they were ever, other than in the 1950s, which I see as this nausatingly idealized plastic era. Granted I wasn’t alive then, but I’ve never read anything that disagreed with that. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/28 "2006-08-15T17:58:25Z")
**Velma** is right…I think the main benefit to manners is that, if we are all operating under the same set of rules, it is easy to know what to expect, and how to avoid offending someone. The trend for children to call adults by their first name is an example…it was so much easier when everyone assumed that adults would be called Mr. Smith or Miss/Mrs. Smith. Now, some adults prefer to be called by their first name, and some don’t. Some parents prefer to teach their children to use the honorific, and are constantly stymied by adults who say “oh, she can just call me Jane,” etc. It make it very confusing, and impossible to know what will offend people and what will not. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/29 "2006-08-15T18:21:22Z")
[QUOTE=muzzynyc] I remember reading something once about one bad effect of the loss of basic manners is that it removes a way to defuse small conflicts between people. If an “excuse me” isn’t given when someone accidentally steps on someone else’s foot, then the step-ee is robbed of the ability to receive the step-er’s acknowledgement that they did a small injury to the step-ee, and to forgive them. I think that may be really convoluted, but maybe you’ll understand what I mean regardless. [/QUOTE] I believe this is the underlying problem with road rage. We’re unable to properly assess the other person’s intent when they engage in a bit of assholish behavior. Sometimes, that guy who cut you off wasn’t being an inconsiderate ass who thinks his time is more important than yours; he just wasn’t thinking or he was trying to watch for other traffic. So an action that would’ve warranted an “excuse me” in the grocery aisle gets nothing and increases your anger. I prefer to be called by my first name by everyone but telemarketers. If I had some reason to introduce myself to a kid, I would introduce myself by first name. If the parents wanted them to call me Miss Deadly or Mrs. Accurate, I’d go with it. I grew up calling my aunts and uncles by their first names. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/30 "2006-08-15T18:24:32Z")
[QUOTE=gfloyd] I think people are no more or less rude than they were ever, other than in the 1950s, which I see as this nausatingly idealized plastic era. Granted I wasn’t alive then, but I’ve never read anything that disagreed with that. [/QUOTE] That may have been true, so long as you were white, or, if you weren’t, you [“knew your place”](http://www.jimcrowhistory.org/resources/lessonplans/hs_es_etiquette.htm) and didn’t try something outrageous like [not give up your bus seat to a white person](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks), or [look at a white woman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till), or [go to a white high school](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine)… ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/31 "2006-08-15T19:04:15Z")
Also in the 1950s, it probably helped in getting people to be polite to you to not be what we would call a geek today- the word [nerd](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd) originated then, and it was _not_ a compliment. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/32 "2006-08-15T19:26:50Z")
Purely anecdotal, but it seems like just about every generation, since the dawn of mankind has had it’s own version of, “Kids these days! Why, when I was their age we had manners! The world is going to hell in a handbasket!” The problem with ‘good’ manners is that good is such a subjective thing. Each generation and culture determines collectively what it will and will not tolerate, and what is good for one person or group is bound to offend another. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/33 "2006-08-15T19:34:58Z")
Good manners is nothing more than courtesy, and courtesy is the 3-In-One oil that helps us go through life easier. Without it, the doors of our lives rust shut real quick. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/34 "2006-08-15T19:37:48Z")
Well, yes, but again, I’m not necessarily talking about kids. I’m talking about people in my own age group who somehow feel it’s their right to treat those around them like their personal stepping stones. As **lieu** said, I have no comprehension of why people would go out of their way to be nasty to complete strangers. ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/35 "2006-08-15T19:42:38Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] I don’t mean to make light of what was a ridiculous and demeaning expectation, if husbands ever actually did expect it. But apart from the sexist connotations, it doesn’t make any sense. Who on earth ever wanted to walk in the door after work and immediately have dinner? I sure don’t. I’d rather spend time relaxing with my wife, perhaps having a drink before dinner, and catching up on things with each other. Then I’m as likely to cook as she is, although we’ve been going out to eat a great deal due to my work schedule and other consideration. [/QUOTE] I’m a stay at home dad and I generally try to have dinner ready by the time my wife comes home. She works just a tad bit later than most people and I’d rather have my cooking done when she’s absent so that when she comes home I can spend my time talking to her and not preparing dinner. I wait awhile for clean up though for the same reasons. I don’t see what’s so outrageous about this custom myself, but then again it’s not something that she demands I do… it just works for us. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/36 "2006-08-15T19:46:01Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Well, yes, but again, I’m not necessarily talking about kids. I’m talking about people in my own age group who somehow feel it’s their right to treat those around them like their personal stepping stones. As **lieu** said, I have no comprehension of why people would go out of their way to be nasty to complete strangers. [/QUOTE] But what makes you think this is any different from how things used to be? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/37 "2006-08-15T19:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] But what makes you think this is any different from how things used to be? [/QUOTE] Y’know, aside from personal experience and reinforcement from coworkers & friends, absolutely nothing. Do you think common courtesy is like altruism? A red herring? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/38 "2006-08-15T20:16:10Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Y’know, aside from personal experience and reinforcement from coworkers & friends, absolutely nothing. Do you think common courtesy is like altruism? A red herring? [/QUOTE] I think most people are courteous, and some people aren’t, and we tend to notice the bad ones. Courtesy is mostly sort of invisible, you know? So it’s easy to notice all the times people are discourteous and miss the times people are courteous. Hell, it’s like driving. I notice the one dude who cuts me off on the way home from work, not the hundred and fifty cars that successfully avoid doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/39 "2006-08-15T21:18:38Z")
[QUOTE=gfloyd] I positively hate being called Ms. Floyd and we’re not going to talk about how ridiculous Ms. Sarah sounds. [/QUOTE] One time I got a call for Ms. Floyd and they got all freaked out when it was a man answering 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726/40 "2006-08-15T22:23:07Z")
Why do I think things are worse now? Well, for one example, I’ve been going to sports events for more than forty-five years. Only in the last five to ten years have I had the experiences of having some yahoo shout over & over & over in my ear, or throw stuff at the players (!), or scream obscenities, or fail to take off hat or stand during the national anthems, or… Yeah, things are much worse. Simple courtesies do not exist in public places any more. If I had a small child (thank the lord I have none) I would sure be afraid to take it to the ball game. Very sad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-in-good-manners-good-or-bad/368726.md?page=3)