# The Decline of Religion in American Life **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2019, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744 "2019-12-12T11:45:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/81 "2019-12-14T03:24:25Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Leviticus is also pretty clear about a lot of other things being forbidden, including, but not limited to: > > - Eating pork > - Eating seafood without skin or scales (such as shellfish) > [@Matthew 15:15-20](#): > > 16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? > 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. > 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. > 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.” Most Christians consider this passage to lift the restrictions Leviticus placed on diet. I can’t explain the beard thing though. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/82 "2019-12-14T03:27:19Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > They’ll be back. There are no atheists in fox holes. Once they are faced with the mortality of their parents, spouse, child, or their own mortality, they will wake up and become more philosophical about life and what does it all mean? What does their life means? I will agree on one point, however…there are no foxes in church. As \*\*Czarcasm \*\*noted above via personal anecdote, plenty of people see imminent death and don’t feel a need for religion in that moment. But there are also plenty who indeed do. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/83 "2019-12-14T03:58:42Z")
Somebody wrote a book explaining that it is important to be loudly bigoted toward religion. That is fun & easy to do. Doing that is popular at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/84 "2019-12-14T04:10:12Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > They’ll be back. Like Vigo the Carpathian? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/85 "2019-12-14T04:44:35Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > They’ll be back. There are no atheists in fox holes. What a cheap insult directed at atheist soldiers and sailors throughout history. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/86 "2019-12-14T04:46:07Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/87 "2019-12-14T05:00:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What a cheap insult directed at atheist soldiers and sailors throughout history. True story: I first explicitly identified as atheist about a year before I actually considered myself to be one. I would have identified as agnostic at the time, but as I was about to deploy to Iraq I was issued dog tags for the first time in my career (I had been in five years by then). In an effort to assess the accuracy of a sometimes myth that they won’t allow you to have “Atheist” on your dog tags, I put my religion as “Atheist” on the form. And guess what? It worked! Myth busted. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/88 "2019-12-14T05:16:39Z")
…you know, there was a time during my effectively atheist but self-described agnostic years when I ended up in a situation where, if things had gone a little differently, I might have ended up dead. What I remember thinking about during that time, which could have been just a few seconds or maybe a couple minutes, was “I just want to breathe again” and “I want the pain to stop.” And here I don’t mean the still very real and not at all to be minimalized psychological pain from something like severe depression, but rather intense physical pain as I was being crushed on my way to drowning and/or asphyxiating (this was out to sea and involved a boat capsizing in a somewhat unusual scenario). I don’t recall having any thoughts of god at that time, or in the aftermath. No “Please god save me,” not even a nebulous “Oh god, this hurts,” just those two thoughts side by side, that I wanted to breathe again, and I wanted the pain to stop. But, hey, I’ll be back, right!? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/89 "2019-12-14T06:00:16Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > They’ll be back. There are no atheists in fox holes. Once they are faced with the mortality of their parents, spouse, child, or their own mortality, they will wake up and become more philosophical about life and what does it all mean? What does their life means? I’m 35 and I watched two whole generations of my family die. I’m an atheist. I am, however, entirely willing to accept that you can’t find meaning in life without someone spoon-feeding you myths. > [@](#): > > I will agree on one point, however…there are no foxes in church. Whatever the fuck this nonsense is supposed to mean, it’s wrong. Stop embarrassing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/90 "2019-12-14T08:02:15Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > They’ll be back. There are no atheists in fox holes. Once they are faced with the mortality of their parents, spouse, child, or their own mortality, they will wake up and become more philosophical about life and what does it all mean? What does their life means? I will agree on one point, however…there are no foxes in church. Thank you Mr./Ms. Mindreader. My father-in-law lived to over 100. Atheist all the way. I’ve lost both parents and my brother. Still atheist. In Isaac Asimov’s last days he made sure that no religious nitwit could claim that he had a deathbed conversion, the way the religious liars did about Darwin. And how typical to claim atheists have never thought about the meaning of life. But I suppose it is possible that some really old people would come to religion. Their brain cells are dying, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/91 "2019-12-14T14:43:33Z")
That’s enough of that, Voyager. Don’t make it personal. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/92 "2019-12-14T14:49:12Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > True story: I first explicitly identified as atheist about a year before I actually considered myself to be one. I would have identified as agnostic at the time, but as I was about to deploy to Iraq I was issued dog tags for the first time in my career (I had been in five years by then). In an effort to assess the accuracy of a sometimes myth that they won’t allow you to have “Atheist” on your dog tags, I put my religion as “Atheist” on the form. > > And guess what? It worked! Myth busted. When I was in the Army(80-85) they wouldn’t put atheist/agnostic/none the best one could do was “no preference” so that is what my dog tags said ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/93 "2019-12-14T14:57:46Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Most Christians consider this passage to lift the restrictions Leviticus placed on diet. I can’t explain the beard thing though. Many read it that way because they don’t want restrictions on themselves as long as they can condemn gays for their lifestyle. Of course they often quote the 10 commandments “thou shalt not kill” as reason for opposing abortion, never mind that many right wing Christians support the death penalty. And one can easily “remember the sabbath and keep it holy” while watching the NFL. As I said they want to pick and choose, hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/94 "2019-12-14T15:14:14Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I feel this is a point being ignored. Religion is declining _now_, but when these kids get closer to death, they’ll likely go back to religion. Just the like old sage that “a conservative is just a liberal that has been mugged”, a 55 year old churchgoer is just a 25 year old atheist with heath scares and dead parents. Sad but true. > > Check back in 30 years, and see what happened. > [@Jinx](#): > > They’ll be back. There are no atheists in fox holes. Once they are faced with the mortality of their parents, spouse, child, or their own mortality, they will wake up and become more philosophical about life and what does it all mean? What does their life means? I will agree on one point, however…there are no foxes in church. This kind of obliviousness is why people are running away from religion, not towards it. I can certainly imagine that religion was more appealing back when death was more commonplace. It used to be normal to have two or three children never make it to adulthood because they either died in childbirth or succumbed to illness (TB, whooping cough, measles). And historically we’ve always lost a huge subsegment of the population to war. Religion has historically provided hope in the face of all of the heartache and misery. But advances in medical care and warfare now provide that hope. Kids don’t drop like flies anymore. Cancer is no longer a death sentence. People worry more about the psychological effects of war than being killed in war. An individual today has more freedom to not put up with certain kinds of life’s shittiness. They can opt out of the many foxholes our ancestors had little choice but to endure. You don’t want kids only to watch them die? No big deal. Here’s some contraception. You don’t want to fight in a rich man’s war? No one is forcing you to and in fact, you can find plenty of others just like you who hate war and warhawk politicians. You don’t have to pray to stop war. You can protest in the streets and vote the motherfuckers out. All that said, in many ways Millennials have a harder existence than their Boomer parents. They have less wealth than their parents did at the same age and crappier jobs. They have more debt. They have poorer prospects for marriage + children + house with the white picket fence. They have a higher rate of anxiety and depression than their parents. [Their life expectancy is lower](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/12/why-are-so-many-americans-dying-young/510455/). So it seems to me if we are to accept the idea that fear and hardship promote religiosity, we’d expect Millennials in general to be more religious than their parents. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/95 "2019-12-14T15:49:18Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > 1. Social. The need to belong to a community. For some people they are religious because church is where they go to be part of a community. Sunday services where you go to see people you know. There are organizations which also serve this purpose within the church. I’m most familiar with Catholic groups like the Knights of Columbus and Guadalupanas, but I’m sure each group has social organizations like this. This area hasn’t taken as big a hit as the metaphysical area, but it has declined some. This is probably more true in urban areas where people have various other reasons to come together in addition to sharing the same religion. Do people come together and join organizations as much as they used to? My impression is that they don’t (and wasn’t this the thesis of the book [Bowling Alone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone)?), and that this is a big factor in “the decline of religion in American life”: the waning popularity of religious organizations is not so much because they’re religious as because they’re organizations. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/96 "2019-12-14T16:46:07Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Do people come together and join organizations as much as they used to? My impression is that they don’t (and wasn’t this the thesis of the book [Bowling Alone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone)?), and that this is a big factor in “the decline of religion in American life”: the waning popularity of religious organizations is not so much because they’re religious as because they’re organizations. This is true; in most areas, secular social organizations, too, are dying (or at least struggling to attract younger members) – fraternal organizations like the Elks, the Moose, etc., as well as service organizations like the Kiwanis, the Optimists, etc. I’d strongly suspect the rise of online communities is a factor – one can now spend your evenings interacting with friends, and meeting new people, without leaving your living room. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/97 "2019-12-14T17:00:14Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > they often quote the 10 commandments “thou shalt not kill” as reason for opposing abortion, never mind that many right wing Christians support the death penalty. At the risk of derailing the thread by hyper-focusing on something, the Bible and OT by no means means “Killing is never allowed in _any circumstances_.” There are plenty of times in the Old Testament when God _ **commanded** _ killing - such as the genocide of the Amalekites, such as ordering the Israelites to execute people for this or that on many occasions, etc. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/98 "2019-12-14T17:04:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > At the risk of derailing the thread by hyper-focusing on something, the Bible and OT by no means means “Killing is never allowed in _any circumstances_.” There are plenty of times in the Old Testament when God _ **commanded** _ killing - such as the genocide of the Amalekites, such as ordering the Israelites to execute people for this or that on many occasions, etc. Agreed. The \*real problem with the Ten Commandments is that either a) there aren’t just ten of them, or b) there are ten, but they’re nothing like the ones people want to put in schools. Different part of Exodus. \*ETA: Okay, there’s actually a litany of problems, but that’s my go-to to kick off the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/99 "2019-12-14T17:04:18Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Do people come together and join organizations as much as they used to? My impression is that they don’t (and wasn’t this the thesis of the book [Bowling Alone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone)?), and that this is a big factor in “the decline of religion in American life”: the waning popularity of religious organizations is not so much because they’re religious as because they’re organizations. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This is true; in most areas, secular social organizations, too, are dying (or at least struggling to attract younger members) – fraternal organizations like the Elks, the Moose, etc., as well as service organizations like the Kiwanis, the Optimists, etc. > > I’d strongly suspect the rise of online communities is a factor – one can now spend your evenings interacting with friends, and meeting new people, without leaving your living room. There’s also been an uptick in geographic mobility. Fewer people live in the same towns/cities that they grew up in than in the past. And people are more likely to move multiple times over the course of adulthood than they used to. Joining an organization makes sense if you have family who are in that organization (e.g., you are not throwing yourself into a den of randos who could be serial killers for all you know) and you can see yourself sticking around long enough to make investment of time and energy worth your while. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744/100 "2019-12-14T17:19:36Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I can certainly imagine that religion was more appealing back when death was more commonplace. It used to be normal to have two or three children never make it to adulthood because they either died in childbirth or succumbed to illness (TB, whooping cough, measles). And historically we’ve always lost a huge subsegment of the population to war. Religion has historically provided hope in the face of all of the heartache and misery. But advances in medical care and warfare now provide that hope. Kids don’t drop like flies anymore. Cancer is no longer a death sentence. People worry more about the psychological effects of war than being killed in war. And back then prayer was as useful a remedy as medicine, and at least did no harm, unlike many cures. Now when you’ve been diagnosed with cancer reading the American Cancer Society website is a lot more effective than reading the Bible, and a doctor is more helpful than a minister. I was there this year. Science cured me, not god. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-religion-in-american-life/844744.md?page=6)