But the claim wouldn’t even be made if a theist didn’t press the point in the first place. The claim is a reaction to a question/demand, and probably wouldn’t be made at all without the prior questioning. I would still be an atheist even if the question never came up by default, the same way that I am an abatmanist. If there was a portion of society that believed that Batman was real and I was asked if I believed in Batman, the need to use such a term as “abatmanist” might arise…but the definition of “abatmanist” as “someone who doesn’t believe Batman exists” would apply to me even if the subject never came up in the first place. The definition of “atheist” applies to me, but the need to use the word as a descriptor is necessary only if questioned.
I would like to add that my church, highly evangelical and Biblical, bought a Unitarian church’s building and we now meet there after the Unitarian congregation went under. We run about 500 every sunday while the Unitarians were barely doing around 60 or so. They now rent out a meeting space.
Now the question is why would people come to a evangelical church that strictly follows the word and is not afraid to point out sin, and not go to a church where everyone and everything is accepted?
Yes, overall there is trouble with a decline in religious life in the US. However I can state as a fact the church still has a strong foundation and many people seek out churches that proclaim the word.
When “the word” leads you to say hateful things about gay people (as it appears for many folks), then that’s going to turn off a lot of folks today who think it’s wrong to be hateful to gay people.
In the same way that a vegan restaurant that says “We don’t serve meat” is going to turn off carnivore folks.
You have to draw a line somewhere. Either you are a vegan restaurant, or you serve meat, but you can’t be both.
AI has a long way to go when it comes to analogies.
No, it is more like a restaurant that claims to serve meat, but serves only beef because “Beef is the only real meat!”
HERE is a video of US marines singing “Days of Elijah”.
HERE is another of them singing “Lord I Lift Your Name on High”.
Nobody in my church says bad things about gays.
Groucho Marx got human nature right when he said “I refuse to join any club that would have me”.
There are lot of people whose concept of salvation excludes anyone who doesn’t believe and act a certain way. Going to church is one of those things they believe they need to do, so they are the most active churchgoers. But there’s also the allure of feeling like they’re earning their seat in heaven, by making sacrifices the “sinful” do not.
If you had two fraternities, one with a reputation for hazing pledges to the brink of death and weeding out anyone too weak to handle it stoically and one with a reputation for accepting anyone who signs up, with no hazing at all, which do you think will be more popular? Human psychology being what it is, my bet would be on the first. Cognitive bias leads people to assume the more exclusive an organization is, the objectively better it is.
Sticking to this analogy, though, more and more people are realizing there are more choices than just a “brutally selective” fraternity and a “come one, come all” fraternity. The third choice is to eschew fraternities altogether and do your own thing, with friends that come into your life organically, not through a club that demands dues from you.
Thank you for those videos of people singing at religious services…which is something you find at most religious services-people of the same faith practicing that faith. If I link up to videos of Marines at a Jewish service, or of Marines not going to a religious service at all, would that show that Marines are Jewish or atheist?
What do they say about gays?
You can believe what you want. Some choose not to believe in a higher power. It’s understandable, I guess. Many things are unfair and the world is full of hypocrisy. But it does need replacing.
It is very important to believe in something bigger than yourself. There are trends towards relentless self-promotion and endless self aggrandizement. But they won’t make you content or happy. Humility and modesty may not be in fashion, but they remain an important ideal. You are not the universe.
Many of your posts have been “bad things” about gay people (examples here and here). If you don’t recognize that these are “bad things” about gay people, then you’re still not understanding why so many Americans find churches like yours (if, indeed, their views about gay people line up with yours) to be harmful and immoral parts of our community.
That is your belief, and you are welcome to it. Personally I have no need to bow or feel insignificant, and I do realize that I am not 14 billion years old nor am I 93 billion light years in diameter…nor do I feel the need to anthropomorphize the entirety of everything that is not “me”.
To add to this, there are also two other things at work:
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A church that says “*Everyone *goes to Heaven, no matter what!” sounds like snake-oil salesmanship, sounds exactly like what you would ***expect ***a church to say if they are trying to solicit money or followers. It breeds suspicion rather than enthusiasm.
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There is no shortage of positive messages in society that say “You are great just the way you are, keep on being awesome.” One of the draws of churches that preach a message of sin, exclusivity and repentance is that they are a contrast to modern American society. A lot of people, I suspect, are fed up with an Oprah Winfrey type of positivity glurge and actually find an austere, tough-love message to be refreshing.
While I realize that this is only my personal experience, but in most cases where I have encountered people that follow this “tough love” philosophy, said followers think they should be the ones administering said “tough love” and not the ones receiving it.
Though generally it is the Churches that proclaim #1 (or believe it even if they don’t yell it from the rafters) which are the ones that some non-religious folks indicate they’d like churches to be. So (and no pun intended), it’s a damned if you damned if you don’t sort of thing.
Though the Churches that believe #1 don’t believe #2. There is most definitely sin and repentance. However, societal sin comes into a play a lot more than the churches that reject #1. And there is an idea that while God’s grace is sufficient for all, sin and repentance is what said God would like us to do… it’s kind of like a loving parent saying I’m not mad, I’m disappointed.
The trouble is that I have received a thousand letters from a thousand people that say they represent a thousand different people claiming to be my father. None of these supposed “fathers” will personally step forward to present their evidence, but the supposed representatives of these supposed “fathers” each have a set of rules they would like me follow to please the “father” they claim to represent, with some claiming that rewards and/or punishments will ensue depending on whether I follow said rules.
Easy: some people like belonging to an ingroup even better if there’s an outgroup they can shit on.
I disagree the idea in bold is the predominate message society hits us with. We get reminders everyday that we have to do and be X to be acceptable. You need exercise every other day. You need a low BMI. Change your car oil every 3000 miles. You have to have hobbies to be interesting. You need a college degree and maybe even a Masters to succeed. You need to make at least $60,000 or you’re screwed in life. If you don’t have a SO and lots of friends, then something is wrong with you. If you don’t have X amount of money in your 401K by the age of 40, then you are irresponsible. If you don’t have a pear or hour glass figure, then your ancestors should have been bred out of the population eons ago.
We are bombarded by a million reminders every day that we are unacceptable in some shape or form. And we have a habit of internalizing these messages and letting them affect how we judge ourselves. The reason a lot of people are drawn to “austere, tough-love messages” is because it’s in line with all the negative self-talk we imbibe. Our default setting is critical, and our religious beliefs reflect this bent.