# The decline of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728 "2024-12-16T20:21:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/21 "2024-12-17T20:34:06Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I understood that the name was because the group catered to men who didn’t fit into religious or ethnic groups, like the Masons, Knights of Columbus, Orange Order, etc. They were the odd men out, and started their own group. [/nomorejokes] Ignorance fought, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/22 "2024-12-17T21:00:03Z")
I can remember, as a kid, certain social events in town being held at “the Moose lodge.” Everybody in town seemed to know where it was. There’s an active Elks club not far from my house. They have a golf course which gets a lot of use. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/23 "2024-12-17T21:00:19Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > These sorts of fraternal organizations have all declined pretty significantly I don’t believe that the Odd Fellows are special in that regard. Right, some nearly gone- Eagles, Wolves, Foresters, Moose etc. They had Life and sometimes health insurance, but now we get that from our job. They were also a way to network, but now that’s the internet. Also something to do one day or two a week- meet, shoot pool, shoot the bull, etc. But now people arent sociable. The Masons are doing Okay. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/24 "2024-12-17T21:03:21Z")
I visited a local Moose/Elk hall a few years ago. My grandfather had his shop right next door in the alley in back. I wondered if they might have vintage photographs of the hall that happened to show the shop also. I had to buzz in at the door but once I explained what I was doing they invited me in and I spent a pleasant hour looking through their photos and talking to an older member who knew the history. Lunch was available and there were a number of ladies there. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/25 "2024-12-17T21:18:43Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Part of how they make revenue is by renting out their ballroom for events. There is one room off to the back that is for members only. Guests are allowed in the rest of the area if with a member. I think that’s true at the American Legion hall near me; the hall is available for rental. And the one near my parents’ house is used for antique auctions, gun and military equipment sales and other such events. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/26 "2024-12-17T21:30:19Z")
I have nothing to further the OP, but will just add that Robert Ripley, believe it or not, is buried in an [Odd Fellows Cemetery.](https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/1399/robert-ripley). ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/27 "2024-12-17T21:38:41Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > (The tiny town I lived in when I was quite young had a IOOF lodge that most belonged to. … Other than the insurance factor (it being more widely available now), the **decline of the American small town** is a major reason for these old fraternal orders shrinking or dying out. All my forebears on both sides, for several generations, lived in Midwestern small towns, and all the men belonged to one order or another. (And a lot of the women; my mother’s mother was active in Eastern Star, for example.) In the decades before chain restaurants, the Lodge might be the only place in town to get a meal “out.” As small towns empty out, there aren’t enough people left to keep a fraternal lodge going. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/28 "2024-12-17T21:42:19Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > There really was an order of “Moose”?? In a small town I used to live in, the Moose was where you went to get cheap drinks. You did have to go with a member, but a ton of people joined because of the cheap drinks. I assume they had events other than “getting trashed on Friday nights”. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/29 "2024-12-17T22:44:56Z")
I, myself, am a Moose. Or, at least, member of the local Moose lodge. I don’t really know how to refer to members. I joined after going several times with some friends. Cheap beer, quasi legal low stakes gambling and food cooked by other members at little or no cost is the norm. .Very informal and fun. One benefit is that you are welcome at any Moose lodge in the country which can be convenient when in pricey tourist towns. There is group insurance available and the Moose regularly donates to charity. I live in a resort area so having places where locals can gather without crowds is a plus. No secret handshake or initiation. Pay your dues and you’re in. You do have to be sponsored by a current member. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/30 "2024-12-18T00:16:52Z")
I am not too familiar with the Moose organization. I looked up the Wikipedia article and noticed in the list of famous members was Ernest Borgnine who supposedly belong to the Junction City, OR lodge. But I can’t find any connection with him and the town. Later in childhood our family and some neighbors got into the Elks, a.k.a, BPOE. Drinking was an important aspect for the men. It was esp. easy if ones shop was directly below the lodge. Ugh. They had an annual picnic at a local small amusement park where us kids got to ride free. Could you be both a Moose and an Elk? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/31 "2024-12-18T00:23:47Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Mooses definitely allow women. My friend is a Moose and I had lunch at the lodge with him and a few of our pals. They had a wall with pictures of past presidents and a recent one was a woman. They had a kitchen and a bar and I got an inexpensive greasy burger and fries. > > Part of how they make revenue is by renting out their ballroom for events. There is one room off to the back that is for members only. Guests are allowed in the rest of the area if with a member. Oops. My friend is actually an Elk now that I think about it but I’m sure that they’re similar. A different friend became a Moose in the 90s before he got married because his future father in law was one. I doubt that he kept up with it. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/32 "2024-12-18T04:37:12Z")
The first part seems to be my experience. Cheap booze, but you have to go in with a member. I don’t know if there is one around me now, but I’m not as much into cheap booze and hanging out in bars. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/33 "2024-12-18T17:18:56Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > the Catholic Church was, for a very long time, opposed to freemasonry Still is. I know someone who was excommunicated because of his involvement with The Masons. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/34 "2024-12-18T17:25:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They were also a way to network, but now that’s the internet. Think about it - you have a pipe burst. Are you going to call some random guy from the Yellow Pages, or are you going to go “Oh, my buddy from the lodge is a plumber - I’ll call him!” Those social organizations were vital for tradesmen and small businesses. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/35 "2024-12-18T17:28:54Z")
I blame television. Men no longer have the desire to sneak out of the house on Lodge night. My own masonic Lodge in Missouri is sometimes unable to open due to the lack of a quorum. Very sad. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/36 "2024-12-18T17:29:15Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > > [@Schnitte](#): > > > > the Catholic Church was, for a very long time, opposed to freemasonry > > Still is. I know someone who was excommunicated because of his involvement with The Masons. This is because the rituals are secret and you can’t have secrets during a confession. I’m surprised that they still care but a quick search shows that they do. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/37 "2024-12-18T17:39:06Z")
It seems to me that this logic is circular. AIUI, even under Catholic teaching a Catholic is required only to confess those actions that constitute sins; you don’t need to mention your non-sinful actions to your confessor. So the secrecy of Masonic rites is only a problem for the Catholic Church if participation in those rites is a sin; which would mean the secrecy itself cannot establish sinfulness. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/38 "2024-12-18T17:41:18Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > This is because the rituals are secret and you can’t have secrets during a confession. I’m surprised that they still care but a quick search shows that they do. I don’t understand why this is. I’m not a Catholic, but my understanding is that confession is about sin. If the rituals don’t include sinful acts, why would they need to be revealed? If a Catholic holds a security clearance, they aren’t (I hope) required to disclose classified information. ETA: ninja’ed by Schnitte ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/39 "2024-12-18T17:42:58Z")
The Catholic church started the Knights of Columbus as an alternative to Freemasonry for good Catholics. When I was in Morristown New Jersey, I saw a big granite building, it’s an office building now, but the cornerstone on it identified it as being the George Washington chapter of the Knights of Columbus. I thought that was really funny. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/40 "2024-12-18T17:49:14Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > I don’t understand why this is. > > I’m not a Catholic, but my understanding is that confession is about sin. If the rituals don’t include sinful acts, why would they need to be revealed? If a Catholic holds a security clearance, they aren’t (I hope) required to disclose classified information. > > ETA: ninja’ed by Schnitte This actually reminds me of the way the intelligence community used to ban gays and lesbians. The stated reason was that gays and lesbians were vulnerable to blackmail about their sexual orientation. A vulnerability created by the ban. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728.md?page=3)