# The decline of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728 "2024-12-16T20:21:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/41 "2024-12-18T17:56:48Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > The Catholic church started the Knights of Columbus as an alternative to Freemasonry for good Catholics. > > When I was in Morristown New Jersey, I saw a big granite building, it’s an office building now, but the cornerstone on it identified it as being the George Washington chapter of the Knights of Columbus. I thought that was really funny. Their [headquarters building in New Haven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus_Building_(New_Haven,_Connecticut)) is a prominent landmark there. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/42 "2024-12-18T18:20:43Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > I blame television. Men no longer have the desire to sneak out of the house on Lodge night. Or church or tavern or shopping mall\*. Or local movie theaters or bus stations or dry cleaners. The bowling alley or dogtrack biz is a tough sell nowadays. New ways to work and recreate. \*I came across this fun gallery & thread yesterday. I initially guessed 1990 but comments narrow it to 1987-8. Tape World, lol. [https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/1hgq3lg/a\_mall\_in\_the\_1980s\_on\_long\_island\_new\_york\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/1hgq3lg/a_mall_in_the_1980s_on_long_island_new_york_for/) ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/43 "2024-12-18T18:44:12Z")
Masonic Halls were often very large and grand buildings. Some are still used for lodge meetings, but a lot of them have been repurposed over the years. The one in my city, for example, is now used as an arts center. It’s one of the nicest looking buildings in town, a six-story Gothic revival building, very impressive. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/44 "2024-12-18T18:45:51Z")
It doesn’t have anything to do with confession. The reasons are because the church believes Masonic principles and rituals are such that Freemasonry constitutes a religion of its own or at the very least those principles/rituals are incompatible with Catholicism. and the church perceives Masons as having an agenda of secularizing society , eliminating Catholic schools and hospitals and opposing the election of Catholic politicians. ( Not saying it’s true, just that these are the reasons) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/45 "2024-12-18T19:51:22Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Think about it - you have a pipe burst. Are you going to call some random guy from the Yellow Pages, or are you going to go “Oh, my buddy from the lodge is a plumber - I’ll call him!” Those social organizations were vital for tradesmen and small businesses. Yes, They were great for things like that. Now you ask on your local FB page and get recs for other residents- which generally is not as good. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/46 "2024-12-18T20:07:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Their [headquarters building in New Haven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus_Building_(New_Haven,_Connecticut)) is a prominent landmark there. The reason I thought it was funny was because George Washington was a prominent Freemason. So it was funny to name a chapter of the KofC after him. Because the KofC was opposed to Freemasonry. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/47 "2024-12-19T20:27:18Z")
I remember some of the guys in high school being asked to join the Demolays, whatever that is. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/48 "2024-12-19T23:20:33Z")
Sort of the junior woodchuck version of the Masons. > **[DeMolay International](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeMolay_International)** > > DeMolay International is a youth leadership organization with Masonic origins for young men ages 12 to 21. There is in select areas a "Squire" program for those younger than 12. It was founded in Kansas City, Missouri, in 1919 and named for Jacques de Molay, the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar. DeMolay was incorporated in the 1990s and is classified by the IRS as a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization. > DeMolay is open for membership to young men between the ages of 12 and 21 who acknowledg... ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/49 "2024-12-20T13:00:19Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > In a small town I used to live in, the Moose was where you went to get cheap drinks. You did have to go with a member, but a ton of people joined because of the cheap drinks. I assume they had events other than “getting trashed on Friday nights”. When I was in university, we’d go to drink at the War Amps of Canada lounge around the corner. It was a members’ club and the beer was much cheper than regular bars. Fortunately, they let visitors in, because it was said to be an expensive club to join - it cost an arm and a leg. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/50 "2024-12-20T14:06:02Z")
Ba-dum tss! Courtesy of Rick Allen from Def Leppard. [![](https://i.abcnewsfe.com/a/b1c4dca4-858e-4188-b26f-69c8987cd046/rick-allen-def-leppard-gty-lv-230521_1684700829160_hpEmbed_3x2.jpg) ](https://i.abcnewsfe.com/a/b1c4dca4-858e-4188-b26f-69c8987cd046/rick-allen-def-leppard-gty-lv-230521_1684700829160_hpEmbed_3x2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/51 "2024-12-22T20:13:16Z")
American Legion is a veterans organization. My father-in-law is member and is commander of the honor guard that performs funeral ceremonies for vets in our area. Cheap drinks at the bar for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2024, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/52 "2024-12-22T20:14:22Z")
Did you think I wasn’t aware of that (that it’s a veterans’ organization)? ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/53 "2024-12-23T04:59:00Z")
Not at all, but others may not have known. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/54 "2024-12-23T19:23:44Z")
The Loyal Order of Foresters and the Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes were similar organisations in England (the Buffaloes spread to other British Dominions). All have declined in recent decades as the welfare state took over many of their functions. The British Legion too has declined, reflecting the shrinking size of the Armed Forces in recent decades, and it is no longer necessary to have been in the military to belong to it (would have been financially unviable to keep it like that). ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/55 "2024-12-24T07:38:03Z")
The Canadian Legion has been pushing ads in recent years that the legion is not just for veterans. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/56 "2024-12-24T08:27:30Z")
Looks like the Foresters are still a viable concern. Of course, they have grown a lot, and now are more a financial organization than a fraternal organization: > **[Foresters Financial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Financial)** > > The Independent Order of Foresters, operating as Foresters Financial, is a fraternal benefit society headquartered in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, that provides life insurance and other financial solutions in Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States. As of 2022, Louis Gagnon has served as the company's president and CEO. > Foresters traces its origins to a British Friendly Society, a mutual organization caring for the sick. Membership was originally gained by combat, first with quarterstaffs... And good point, @md-2000 . The Royal Canadian Legion has expanded their membership beyond veterans, and is now looking for members who have never served. I recall being the guest of a member (he served in the Canadian Forces back in the 1970s and 1980s) at a Legion, and found his local Legion a nice place. Maybe I should look into it. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/57 "2024-12-24T13:22:05Z")
I looked into the British Legion because of this thread. It’s £20/year for non-veterans. There’s a post about 10 minutes walk from where I live. They have a couple big rooms they rent out for events. Very cheap beer compared to local pubs. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/58 "2024-12-24T14:56:25Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > > [@md-2000](#): > > > > (There really was an order of “Moose”??) > > Not “was”. Is. **[Moose International](https://www.mooseintl.org/)**. With over a million members. They’re apparently gender neutral these days. I had a recent client who got in a fight with another lady at “The Moose” (their lodge). They were both members, and as far as I could tell the reason to go was to play darts and drink. I think they also had a trivia night. Every time she talked about “The Moose” with such sincerity (“I haven’t been able to visit _The Moose_! I’ve been going to _The Moose_ for years!”) it was always a struggle to stifle my laughter. I also recently worked with a guy in his 60s who was an Eagle. Best as I could tell, his membership offered an opportunity to talk about the old times and drink. They are dying out precisely because they don’t attract new members. [https://www.foe.com/](https://www.foe.com/) > [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > > > Are you going to call some random guy from the Yellow Pages, or are you going to go “Oh, my buddy from the lodge is a plumber - I’ll call him!” Those social organizations were vital for tradesmen and small businesses. > > Yes, They were great for things like that. > > Now you ask on your local FB page and get recs for other residents- which generally is not as good. There’s a group called BNI (Business Network International) that purports to fulfill this role. It’s not a fraternal group, but they have chapters all over the world, and you have to join and pay dues. The focus is entirely devoted to business networking; the chapter will only allow one member per profession (with the caveat that you can subdivide some types of work; so a group could have different types of lawyers or doctors, for example). The groups share referrals; as a member, you are supposed to refer customers to other members of the group, and also do business yourself within the group. When run well, they can be a great source of business (imagine a realtor, mortgage broker, title company, roofer, landscaper, insurance agent, and general contractor all sharing business referrals). When run poorly, it can feel like a high pressure pyramid scheme (you are forced to do business with the people in the group, can’t miss meetings, are expected to bring in guests and grow the chapter with new members…) > **[Home](https://www.bni.com/)** > > With over 330,000+ Members worldwide, Business Network International (BNI) is the world's largest business networking and business referral organization. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/59 "2024-12-24T15:07:02Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > The groups share referrals; as a member, you are supposed to refer customers to other members of the group, and also do business yourself within the group. When run well, they can be a great source of business (imagine a realtor, mortgage broker, title company, roofer, landscaper, insurance agent, and general contractor all sharing business referrals). When run poorly, it can feel like a high pressure pyramid scheme (you are forced to do business with the people in the group, can’t miss meetings, are expected to bring in guests and grow the chapter with new members…) Yeah fuck that. If I ask my plumber if they’ve worked with an electrician that they would recommend, it better be because they’re honest and do good work. Not because they’re in the same club. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728/60 "2024-12-24T15:19:39Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > If I ask my plumber if they’ve worked with an electrician that they would recommend, it better be because they’re honest and do good work. Not because they’re in the same club. Which is why the groups can be hit or miss. In _theory_, the group holds bad members accountable (after all, it’s your reputation on the line when you give a referral) (I did BNI back when I was a real estate attorney, but I never liked it.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-decline-of-the-independent-order-of-odd-fellows/1011728.md?page=4)