# The deepest sympathys to all you Irish out there. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 18, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083 "2009-11-18T22:35:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/121 "2009-11-20T23:08:53Z")
I think all these stupid controversies that hinge on one or two people’s arbitrary actions support the idea of making scoring easier in soccer. At the moment, the average is something like 2.5 goals per game in a good year. I would favour modest reforms that would increase that to perhaps 3.5, which should reduce the significance of incidents such as this, and mean fewer penalty shootouts too. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/122 "2009-11-21T08:06:41Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I think all these stupid controversies that hinge on one or two people’s arbitrary actions support the idea of making scoring easier in soccer. At the moment, the average is something like 2.5 goals per game in a good year. I would favour modest reforms that would increase that to perhaps 3.5, which should reduce the significance of incidents such as this, and mean fewer penalty shootouts too. Except that this type of controversy is part of the joy of football. We all know it doesn’t actually matter in the great scheme of things, but it’s something to debate in the pub or the office, and it gives fans of a team that much needed lifeline that “they was robbed”. Hating the ref is part of the fun. It’s more serious for the clubs as they now have shareholders and management boards who desire profits each season, but for the average fan having a good whinge about the ref post-game is part of football’s appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/123 "2009-11-21T08:19:43Z")
Verstehst’ de? :):)🙂 [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQd_HWRzr3Q) Es gibt nur ein Rudi Völler! Quas’ ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/124 "2009-11-21T08:27:37Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/nsXOKOzmHtI/hqdefault.jpg "Klaus & Klaus - Es gibt nur ein' Rudi Völler 2006") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsXOKOzmHtI) Oder? Ja, ich liebe Fussball! Totall! Der Quas’! ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/125 "2009-11-21T10:55:58Z")
Despite Henry admitting he handled the ball and saying that a replay would be fair, the French FA have refused a replay. Typical, but what can you expect of them? After all they are French and more than likely shit scared of losing a replay ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/126 "2009-11-21T13:55:47Z")
[This](http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/sport/whytherefereemissedit.pdf) PDF shows that none of the referees could see what Henry did. - I know it’s not a big issue in this thread, but worth mentioning nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/127 "2009-11-21T14:25:16Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > … worth mentioning nonetheless. Indeed. If the officials whose job it is to judge the legality of what’s happening on the field can’t consistently be in a position to actually see what’s happening, it makes a rather strong argument that some sort of improvement is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/128 "2009-11-21T19:03:55Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > [This](http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/sport/whytherefereemissedit.pdf) PDF shows that none of the referees could see what Henry did. - I know it’s not a big issue in this thread, but worth mentioning nonetheless. The linesman, however, had a clear view. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/129 "2009-11-21T19:05:21Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > Except that this type of controversy is part of the joy of football. > > We all know it doesn’t actually matter in the great scheme of things, but it’s something to debate in the pub or the office, and it gives fans of a team that much needed lifeline that “they was robbed”. > > Hating the ref is part of the fun. It’s more serious for the clubs as they now have shareholders and management boards who desire profits each season, but for the average fan having a good whinge about the ref post-game is part of football’s appeal. Er…says you. I don’t want that sort of subjectivity. How far would you take it? what if Henry just caught the ball and ran it over the line a la rugby or American football? How far is too far? It was a dreadful, dreadful call. A player cheated, blatantly, and got away with it. That’s pub level football stuff not a series qualifiers that has real emotional and economic implications. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/130 "2009-11-21T20:53:47Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsXOKOzmHtI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsXOKOzmHtI) > > Oder? > > Ja, ich liebe Fussball! > > Totall! > > Der Quas’! This is wrong in so many different ways…Rudi Voeller _JESUS CHRIST!_ ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/131 "2009-11-22T00:06:29Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > The linesman, however, had a clear view. Which linesman are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/132 "2009-11-22T01:11:45Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > The linesman, however, had a clear view. Apparently, you didn’t even bother to look at the PDF. The Assistant Referee (they haven’t been called linesmen in a few years now) was not positioned to see the handling, having been screened out by Shay Given. Should be noted that the Assistant Referee is out of position for the play; he should have been down at the goal line by the time the ball got there, or at least very close. Of course, if he had been, he might have been even more screened out by Given, or he might have seen past Given’s right side to see the handling. Iffy either way. The Referee, of course, is horribly positioned for the type of play in question, since he is almost guaranteed to be screened out by players, and he is too far away from the action. He appears not to move from what I’ve seen in the way of replays from the spot he was stationed in when the free kick was taken. A good referee would have been breaking in towards the goal area as it became clear the flight of the ball was going to take it into the goal area, as opposed to the area around the penalty spot. His failure to catch the handling was somewhat more egregious, though it’s a situation that even a really well-placed referee might not have seen, being blocked out by Henry’s body as well as other players. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/133 "2009-11-22T12:31:42Z")
> [@Chez\_Guevara](#): > > Jokes aside, the Irish supporters are dealing with it well enough, whereas your fans would still be enjoying the riot if the same had happened to Argentina. No, we wouldn’t. Its not as if we were never wronged by a referee. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_and_England_football_rivalry#1966_World_Cup) ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/134 "2009-11-22T13:01:55Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > No, we wouldn’t. Its not as if we were never wronged by a referee. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_and_England_football_rivalry#1966_World_Cup) That’s a matter of opinion. In any case, if you find it necessary to go back 43 years to find an example of being ‘wronged’ by a referee, you have been very, very lucky in the interim. I only have to look back 23 years. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/135 "2009-11-22T15:27:25Z")
> [@Chez\_Guevara](#): > > That’s a matter of opinion. > > In any case, if you find it necessary to go back 43 years to find an example of being ‘wronged’ by a referee, you have been very, very lucky in the interim. > > I only have to look back 23 years. 🙂 That’s a matter of opinion too. Some claim that it wasn’t cheating but some kind of divine intervention :). ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/136 "2009-11-23T04:36:38Z")
Heh. The only thing “divine” in that stupidity was the apparent blinding of the referee at a crucial moment. Just the geometry of the situation should have told the officials what must have happened! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/137 "2009-11-24T01:18:53Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Apparently, you didn’t even bother to look at the PDF. > > The Assistant Referee (they haven’t been called linesmen in a few years now) was not positioned to see the handling, having been screened out by Shay Given. > > . I looked at it alright and I certainly don’t accept it. You can make a case that the linesman could have missed the first hand ball but by the second Given was on his line and he then had a clear view of Henry. The .pdf itself is a mock up and threadbare in its analysis. I’m surprised that a lawyer (assuming your title is an indication of your profession) would find it so dispositive. Sky Sports disagrees and I’m currently trying to dig up their graphic so I can cite it. For what it is worth, I was in the lower stand about 10 yards up from the linesman and it was clear as day. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/138 "2009-11-24T21:53:30Z")
Oh damn you truth teller, nothing evades you, eh? Looking forward to the web site with all the angles and shit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/139 "2009-11-27T21:06:50Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > No, we wouldn’t. Its not as if we were never wronged by a referee. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_and_England_football_rivalry#1966_World_Cup) In that case, the referee spoke enough Spanish to realise what Rattin had said. It’s a great shame that such a wonderful footballer should be remembered for that incident. The same, to a certain degree can be said about Maradona Argentina were wronged by the referee, the Mexican Codesal, in the 1990 Final. Voller(?) should have gone for an elbow on Maradona, the penalty was for a dive and Argentina were denied a blatant penalty when Mattheus brought down Burrachaga(?) in the box. Mind you, Monzon deserved a Red Card for his haircut. And Klinnsmanns breakdancing was the best I’ve seen since Hagler caught Hearns one… Incidently… Codesal’s day job was as a Gynaecologist, which I’ve always thought made him eminently suitable for a Germany v Argentina game… After all… He must have been used to dealing with C\*nts. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083/140 "2009-11-27T21:48:57Z")
Look, **mascaroni** , that’s a bit vivid. I know you all like to get in each others’ faces around these sports threads, but let’s remember our raising and act like gentlemen, shall we? **Ellen Cherry Game Room moderator** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deepest-sympathys-to-all-you-irish-out-there/518083.md?page=8)