# The deer and the antelope play? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 14, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186 "2005-10-14T05:05:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/1 "2005-10-14T05:05:50Z")
_Home, home on the range, where the deer and the antelope play…_ Is there someplace in the world where [deer](http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/wilderness/animals/deer.htm) and [antelope](http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-antelope.html) would both be found (and, presumably, “play”)? “the Range” is not an acceptable answer." ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/2 "2005-10-14T05:13:22Z")
Lots of place in the US. Such as Arizona: [Deer](http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/game_mule.shtml): > [@](#): > > The most numerous, widespread and popular of Arizona’s big-game animals are deer. The state has two distinct species, the mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) and the white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus). > > The most abundant deer in Arizona is the Rocky Mountain mule deer. Mule deer are not limited to any one type of terrain, being found from sparse, low deserts to high forested mountains. Generally they prefer the more rugged country. [Antelope](http://www.gf.state.az.us/h_f/game_antelope.shtml): > [@](#): > > Pronghorn antelope are native to the prairies of North America. At one time they numbered in the millions and were found on the open plains from the Mississippi River to the Rocky Mountains and from Mexico to central Canada. With the European settlement of the plains, the population was reduced nearly to extinction. In Arizona, antelope are found primarily in the northern plains. They also inhabit high elevation meadows between forested areas, and scattered herds are found in the grasslands of southeastern Arizona. The endangered Sonoran pronghorn occurs in Mexico and southwestern Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/3 "2005-10-14T05:14:23Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > _Home, home on the range, > where the deer and the antelope play…_ > > Is there someplace in the world where [deer](http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/wilderness/animals/deer.htm) and [antelope](http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-antelope.html) would both be found (and, presumably, “play”)? > > “the Range” is not an acceptable answer." Your link is for true antelopes, which live in Africa. [Pronghorns](http://www.nps.gov/wica/Pronghorn.htm) are not true antelope but are usually called “antelope” in the US. They live and, and presumably play if so inclined, on the same range as some deer species. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/4 "2005-10-14T05:20:11Z")
The pronghorn is the only surviving member of Family Antilocapridae, which had dozens of extinct genera. “True antelopes” belong to several subfamilies of Family Bovidae, which includes cattle, sheep, and goats along with them. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/5 "2005-10-14T05:23:31Z")
I don’t want to hijack your question, but deer have become so common in Nashville suburbs that they are no longer startled by human beings. I can drive up in my daughter’s backyard and the buck, doe and fawn stare at me but don’t flee. Are they that way in other places? Are pronghorn “antelopes” ever that comfortable around human beings? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/6 "2005-10-14T05:37:18Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > _Home, home on the range, > where the deer and the antelope play…_ > > Is there someplace in the world where [deer](http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/wilderness/animals/deer.htm) and [antelope](http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-antelope.html) would both be found (and, presumably, “play”)? > > “the Range” is not an acceptable answer." Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Montana, New Mexico - lots of places around here. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/7 "2005-10-14T05:50:07Z")
OK, thanks for the clarification. Can we assume that Pronghorn are what the songwriter had in mind? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/8 "2005-10-14T11:40:07Z")
Considering that there are no deer in Africa (where most true antelopes are found)…probably. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/9 "2005-10-14T11:42:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Considering that there are no deer in Africa (where most true antelopes are found)…probably. Correction…no _native_ deer in Africa. Fallow deer were imported to South Africa and spread, but I’m pretty sure the song is meant to refer to the southwest/west of the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/10 "2005-10-14T12:13:31Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Can we assume that Pronghorn are what the songwriter had in mind? Almost certainly. And despite the post indicating that they were once reduced almost to extinction, they are now a common sight in many open plains areas of the west. I’m not sure they “play” much with deer, but they certainly coexist with them. They are notoriously difficult to approach closely - they have terriffic eyesight and are much the fastest land animal in North America. Indeed, it’s something of a mystery how an animal evolves a running speed of around 45mph in the absence of a predator with anything approaching that speed. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/11 "2005-10-14T12:16:45Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Indeed, it’s something of a mystery how an animal evolves a running speed of around 45mph in the absence of a predator with anything approaching that speed. Must be all that X-treme playing they do! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/12 "2005-10-14T14:10:22Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Indeed, it’s something of a mystery how an animal evolves a running speed of around 45mph in the absence of a predator with anything approaching that speed. There used to be [North American “Cheetahs”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracinonyx) (really, more closely related to pumas) running around on the grasslands of North America. IIRC, they went extinct shortly after the ancestors of todays native Americans showed up. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/13 "2005-10-14T14:54:14Z")
Yes, it would definitely be the pronghorn “antelope” that the songwriter had in mind. The most likely species of deer to be found on “the range” would be Mule Deer, though these would usually be near wooded or semi-wooded areas or scrub. Native deer do not co-exist with true antelope in most of Africa, and true antelope do not occur in the Americas. However, deer and true antelope can be found together in much of Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/14 "2005-10-14T15:06:10Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Indeed, it’s something of a mystery how an animal evolves a running speed of around 45mph in the absence of a predator with anything approaching that speed. I’m guessing a wolf could give it a run for it’s money. I’ve seen Gray Wolf top speeds estimated at anywhere from 30-45 mph. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/15 "2005-10-14T15:21:04Z")
When pronghorns move, they really move. I was driving along a dirt road in Utah one morning when I came upon a solitary adult male pronghorn. He ran off the road, then ran alongside the road, pacing me at 40mph for about 1/2 mile before veering off. It was obvious that he was just cruising along at that speed–it looked like he had another 10mph in him, easy. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/16 "2005-10-14T15:24:34Z")
The guy who wrote this song was probably the same one that hung the name “Buffalo Bill” on William Cody. “Bison Bill” just doesn’t have the same ring to it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/17 "2005-10-14T15:34:13Z")
When I was a child, “antelope” was the common usage for _Antilocapra americanus_; the common use of “pronghorn” to distinguish them from “true antelope” came a long when I was in my teens, after one of those “the jackrabbit is really a hare” memes about how “the pronghorn antelope is not really an antelope” spread rapidly. Every kid knew just what beasts were being referred to by “…the buffalo roam, and the deer and the antelope play” even though the nitpickery terminological error rate was two out of three. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/18 "2005-10-14T15:48:16Z")
> [@RandomLetters](#): > > There used to be [North American “Cheetahs”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracinonyx). Thanks for the link - this would indeed tend to explain the remarkable speeds that pronghorns can reach. The link notes that the top speed may be close to 60mph, and probably isn’t due to predation by wolves. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/19 "2005-10-14T16:07:44Z")
Incidently, on approaching pronghorns - they can outrun practically anything in the open, but can be “trapped” in a fence corner. Unlike deer, they are hesitant to jump fences, though probably physically capable of doing so. They prefer to search along a fence row to find a place they can go under it. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186/20 "2005-10-14T16:52:35Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > I’m guessing a wolf could give it a run for it’s money. > > I’ve seen Gray Wolf top speeds estimated at anywhere from 30-45 mph. Yes, but a pronghorn can top 60 MPH for several minutes before tiring and can run ag 30 MPH for several miles. I’ve even heard they’ve been clocked at around 84 MPH at their fastest. That’s not to say they don’t get eaten, as fawns do, and some adults, but a healthy adult can easily outrun any wolf (although if a wolf can corner one, that’s another story). California used to have huge herds. I read a book on Monterey’s natural history that says the Spanish treated them like cattle and would cull individuals for their hides every so often. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-deer-and-the-antelope-play/326186.md?page=2)