# The definition of insanity **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768 "2016-08-23T21:28:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/1 "2016-08-23T21:28:22Z")
I’ve heard it said on many occasions that “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome”. The first thing that I think when I hear this is: “that’s not the definition of insanity”. A review through the various online dictionaries confirms my belief. The second thing I think of is practice. Practice, whether it be for sports, performing arts, etc., is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. And guess what? It works! So what the heck does the statement mean? ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/2 "2016-08-23T21:31:51Z")
The meaning is that it’s insane to keep doing the same thing that didn’t produce results and keep expecting those results that haven’t been forthcoming. With training you should at least be getting closer. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/3 "2016-08-23T23:19:02Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > The meaning is that it’s insane to keep doing the same thing that didn’t produce results and keep expecting those results that haven’t been forthcoming. > > With training you should at least be getting closer. Perhaps it’s foolish or naive or optimistic or a variety of other things. But it’s not insane. ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/4 "2016-08-23T23:25:34Z")
> **["The definition of insanity" is the most overused cliché of all time](https://www.salon.com/2013/08/06/the_definition_of_insanity_is_the_most_overused_cliche_of_all_time/)** > > Attention all writers! You're all writing the same thing over and over again. Now that's insanity ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/5 "2016-08-23T23:44:13Z")
Insanity is where you have a model of reality in your head that doesn’t correspond with your actual experiences of reality. In a world where there is a lot of social pressure to embrace a model of reality that doesn’t fit actual experiences, it is damn difficult to _not_ be insane. You don’t get useful validation / feedback from other people, those little reality-checks that tell you that no, you haven’t stepped off into nonsensical belief systems. Instead you get multiple flavors of insanity: the conformist flavor and zillions of nonconformist flavors. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/6 "2016-08-24T00:20:19Z")
I heard this once, " The degree to which you are sane or insane is in direct proportion to your ability to accept that life is difficult". ---
**Author:** ![Debillw3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Debillw3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debillw3)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/7 "2016-08-24T00:28:58Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > The second thing I think of is practice. Practice, whether it be for sports, performing arts, etc., is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. And guess what? It works! When you practice, you’re either not doing the same thing or not expecting a different result. It’s said often that “practice makes perfect” is wrong–it’s “perfect practice makes perfect”. The goal of practicing is to train your body to do it perfectly each time–if that’s what you’re doing, then you should expect the same (perfect) outcome of each perfect try. If the outcome isn’t perfect, then something along the line is going wrong–and if you keep doing the exact same thing over & over again without figuring out what that thing is & correcting it, you’re training your body to do the wrong thing. That’s (perhaps ironically) the exact situation the phrase you’re quoting is warning against. For example, let’s say I’m practicing free throws. If I’m doing the same exact thing each time, then each shot should (barring external factors) have the exact same result. If I’m not getting the same result, then I’m not doing the same exact thing. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/8 "2016-08-24T00:36:44Z")
Agreed that the aphorism is NOT a definition of insanity. It might be an example of “not learning from your mistakes,” but that isn’t insane, just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/9 "2016-08-24T01:05:00Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > So what the heck does the statement mean? It means the person saying it can’t come up with any better line than rehashing an old trite cliche. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/10 "2016-08-24T01:22:17Z")
I always figured it was the definition of gambling. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/11 "2016-08-24T13:26:45Z")
Also, the saying is often attributed to Einstein. Any truth to that at all? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/12 "2016-08-24T13:29:08Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Also, the saying is often attributed to Einstein. Any truth to that at all? Almost certainly not, but that’s a LitWAG based on too much experience with faux attributions. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/13 "2016-08-24T16:35:07Z")
Insanity is majority rules. If a million people believe in the same crazy thing, they are not insane. For example: religion. There are hundreds of millions of people who believe there’s an invisible man in the sky who knows everything and sees everything you do. And this invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do, and if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time. (But he loves you.) As crazy as this sounds, the mere fact that so many people believe it means they are not insane. On the other hand, [the first person to discover “germs”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis) was thrown into an insane asylum. Tiny, invisible things that cause disease?!? Craaaaaazy! ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/14 "2016-08-24T16:41:35Z")
Many life events have probabilistic outcomes, and doing the same thing over and over will in fact produce different results. Not to recognize this would be . . . insane. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/15 "2016-08-24T16:51:35Z")
> [@Debillw3](#): > > When you practice, you’re either not doing the same thing or not expecting a different result. > > It’s said often that “practice makes perfect” is wrong–it’s “perfect practice makes perfect”. I heard the same thing growing up. There’s a big difference between the point of the quote about the definition of insanity is trying to make and the whole difference is, as pointed out in the full quoted post, is that practice is making subtle adjustments. As an example, as a pianist, I’m trying to learn something. If I go in and just try to learn it by trying to play all the parts at full speed all in a row, doing that over and over is going to result in nothing. Instead, I study it, break it down into smaller parts and practice them individually and practice them combined in certain ways and I start slower and work my way up. In fact, it seems to me that’s the whole point of the “insanity” quote. Some people learn from their mistakes, they make adjustments, and try again. That’s pretty much the exactly opposite of trying the same thing over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/16 "2016-08-24T17:00:25Z")
“Maxims accurately describe those situations they describe accurately.” - Albert Einstein ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-definition-of-insanity/763768/17 "2016-08-24T17:18:19Z")
In case no one has said it or linked to it yet, the phrase appeared in a 1981 brochure put out by Narcotics Anonymous, and not “credited” (seems the wrong word for such a dumb phrase) there to Einstein. Doing the same thing over and over _because_ it fails, that’s a sign of insanity.